Another attack on moral subjectivism
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01-07-2015, 08:24 AM
RE: Another attack on moral subjectivism
(01-07-2015 08:18 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  You oversimplify and then ignore anything I've already said. Why the fuck would I answer another asinine question? Consider

If you want to know my answer, go read any of the dozens of other posts I've made. Drinking Beverage

It seems that several other people here, can't make sense of your answers either, like Stevil, Tear, Matt, and myself. So what does that imply? That we're all impaired? Refusing to understand you? Or that you don't make much sense, and have done a very poor job at communicating your objections?
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01-07-2015, 08:28 AM
Another attack on moral subjectivism
(01-07-2015 08:24 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(01-07-2015 08:18 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  You oversimplify and then ignore anything I've already said. Why the fuck would I answer another asinine question? Consider

If you want to know my answer, go read any of the dozens of other posts I've made. Drinking Beverage

It seems that several other people here, can't make sense of your answers either, like Stevil, Tear, Matt, and myself. So what does that imply? That we're all impaired? Refusing to understand you? Or that you don't make much sense, and have done a very poor job at communicating your objections?

Other people seem to understand what I say, so I have no idea what the barrier is and it's not really relevant.

Except for you. I don't believe you because you're dishonest.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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01-07-2015, 08:30 AM
Another attack on moral subjectivism
And keep in mind, my "objections" are a different view of morality because I reject the "ought" version of morality.

So yeah, if people reject what I mean when I say morality, they'll refuse to accept anything else I say. That's the reason I reject the moral nihilist (and the theist objectivist) view, because I reject it as meaningful or representative of reality.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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01-07-2015, 08:32 AM
RE: Another attack on moral subjectivism
(01-07-2015 08:12 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(01-07-2015 08:06 AM)Chas Wrote:  Using this thread as evidence, I'd say it adds a layer of confusion.

You seem to believe that morals come from somewhere other than ourselves and that makes discussion difficult when there has not been shown to be a somewhere else.

Even if we assume that morality doesn't come from somewhere else, but from our ourselves, the question still remains. If morality is not a matter of oughts, what does it mean for you to refer to an action that is harmful, as immoral? What is being implied by immoral, which is not being implied by harmful?

Immoral doesn't necessitate harmful; it might merely be offensive or disgusting.

For example, some people consider certain sexual acts between consenting adults immoral yet there is no harm involved.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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01-07-2015, 08:36 AM
RE: Another attack on moral subjectivism
(01-07-2015 08:28 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Other people seem to understand what I say, so I have no idea what the barrier is and it's not really relevant.

Except for you. I don't believe you because you're dishonest.

No one who objects to your position here is able to understand what it is you're saying, this has been pointed out several times. You apparently don't know what the barrier here is for them, while you imagine that it's dishonesty when it comes to me.

When I find myself at an impasse in which the other person is having difficulty understanding my point, I try and simplify it, and break it down as much as I can, rather than just repeat the same thing being misunderstood over and over again. Or I might reflect and wonder if what I'm saying doesn't actually follow, is inconsistent.

The problem might not be the inability of a person to understand you, the problem might just be your inability to recognize your own gibberish.
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01-07-2015, 08:38 AM
Another attack on moral subjectivism
(01-07-2015 08:36 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(01-07-2015 08:28 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Other people seem to understand what I say, so I have no idea what the barrier is and it's not really relevant.

Except for you. I don't believe you because you're dishonest.

No one who objects to your position here is able to understand what it is you're saying, this has been pointed out several times. You apparently don't know what the barrier here is for them, while you imagine that it's dishonesty when it comes to me.

When I find myself at an impasse in which the other person is having difficulty understanding my point, I try and simplify it, and break it down as much as I can, rather than just repeat the same thing being misunderstood over and over again. Or I might reflect and wonder if what I'm saying doesn't actually follow, is inconsistent.

The problem might not be the inability of a person to understand you, the problem might just be your inability to recognize your own gibberish.

You're a dense fuck. When I care about your opinion, I'll shoot a pig out of the sky and smoke it. Drinking Beverage

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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01-07-2015, 08:39 AM
RE: Another attack on moral subjectivism
(01-07-2015 08:32 AM)Chas Wrote:  Immoral doesn't necessitate harmful; it might merely be offensive or disgusting.

For example, some people consider certain sexual acts between consenting adults immoral yet there is no harm involved.

Of course it doesn't necessarily have to be harmful, though I'm doubtful when it comes to yourself that you find certain things immoral because it's disgusting.

But going off your example, if a person found a sexual act disgusting, what it is being added by referring to the act as immoral, rather than as merely disgusting?

While you recognize that disgusting, and harmful are not synonymous with immoral, what meaning is being added, by referring to certain disgusting and harmful things, as immoral? Particularly if you say it's not something prescriptive, not an ought.
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01-07-2015, 08:40 AM
Another attack on moral subjectivism
(01-07-2015 08:39 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(01-07-2015 08:32 AM)Chas Wrote:  Immoral doesn't necessitate harmful; it might merely be offensive or disgusting.

For example, some people consider certain sexual acts between consenting adults immoral yet there is no harm involved.

Of course it doesn't necessarily have to be harmful, though I'm doubtful when it comes to yourself that you find certain things immoral because it's disgusting.

But going off your example, if a person found a sexual act disgusting, what it is being added by referring to the act as immoral, rather than as merely disgusting?

Dishonesty is disgusting and immoral Drinking Beverage

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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01-07-2015, 08:50 AM
RE: Another attack on moral subjectivism
(01-07-2015 08:38 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  You're a dense fuck. When I care about your opinion, I'll shoot a pig out of the sky and smoke it. Drinking Beverage

I have a good book for you: http://www.amazon.com/After-Virtue-Study...268035040.

The book explains in great detail why this incoherency is present in individuals such as yourself.

"It begins with an allegory suggestive of the premise of the science-fiction novel A Canticle for Leibowitz: a world where all sciences have been dismantled quickly and completely. MacIntyre asks what the sciences would look like if they were re-assembled from the remnants of scientific knowledge that survived the catastrophe. He claims that the new sciences, though superficially similar to the old, would in fact be devoid of real scientific content, because the key suppositions and attitudes would not be present. "The hypothesis which I wish to advance," he continues, "is that in the actual world which we inhabit the language of morality is in the same state of grave disorder as the language of natural science in the imaginary world which I described."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/After_Virtue
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01-07-2015, 08:51 AM
RE: Another attack on moral subjectivism
(01-07-2015 08:40 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Dishonesty is disgusting and immoral Drinking Beverage

To repeat the unanswered question:

What is being implied by immoral here, that is not being implied by disgusting?
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