Another attack on moral subjectivism
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13-07-2015, 06:44 PM
RE: Another attack on moral subjectivism
(13-07-2015 06:19 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Seeing someone being a hurt by another person, with whom you empathize with, can provoke you to believe that what happening to that person is not right. '
What do you mean when you say "not right"
I can empathise with someone who has had their leg bitten off by a shark, am I supposed to believe that it wasn't right for the shark to bite the person's leg off?

Quote:A real moral transgression need not occur, but an illusory one at the very least might arise.
How might I come to the illusion that it isn't right for the shark to have bitten off the person's leg?
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13-07-2015, 07:57 PM
Another attack on moral subjectivism
(13-07-2015 06:44 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(13-07-2015 06:19 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Seeing someone being a hurt by another person, with whom you empathize with, can provoke you to believe that what happening to that person is not right. '
What do you mean when you say "not right"
I can empathise with someone who has had their leg bitten off by a shark, am I supposed to believe that it wasn't right for the shark to bite the person's leg off?

Quote:A real moral transgression need not occur, but an illusory one at the very least might arise.
How might I come to the illusion that it isn't right for the shark to have bitten off the person's leg?

Since you avoided the question, let's try and put it another. If empathy, that capacity to put ourselves in other people, is a product of Darwinian evolution, what particular survival benefit does it offer? How does it impact our behavior, what sort of beliefs tend arise from it?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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13-07-2015, 08:06 PM
RE: Another attack on moral subjectivism
(13-07-2015 07:57 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Since you avoided the question, let's try and put it another. If empathy, that capacity to put ourselves in other people, is a product of Darwinian evolution, what particular survival benefit does it offer? How does it impact our behavior, what sort of beliefs tend arise from it?


If empathy's a product of Darwinian evolution? If?

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"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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13-07-2015, 10:08 PM
RE: Another attack on moral subjectivism
(13-07-2015 07:57 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  How does it impact our behavior,
I am no expert in empathy. Whether empathy is something evolved of itself due to some reproductive advantage or is merely a consequence of our evolved intelligence, I couldn't tell you.

Perhaps the ladies like a man who shows compassion and empathy towards them. Perhaps that is how there becomes a reproductive advantage? Rather than going for a Jake the Mus type of partner. Now cook some eggs!

Could also be vice versa, that the men like the ladies that show compassion and empathy towards them as well.

But then again I am just wildly speculating

(13-07-2015 07:57 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  what sort of beliefs tend arise from it?
I have no interest in beliefs.
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14-07-2015, 06:11 AM
RE: Another attack on moral subjectivism
(13-07-2015 10:08 PM)Stevil Wrote:  I have no interest in beliefs.

Except of course when claiming they arise out of social conditioning? You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Quote:I am no expert in empathy. Whether empathy is something evolved of itself due to some reproductive advantage or is merely a consequence of our evolved intelligence, I couldn't tell you.

Perhaps the ladies like a man who shows compassion and empathy towards them. Perhaps that is how there becomes a reproductive advantage? Rather than going for a Jake the Mus type of partner. Now cook some eggs!

Could also be vice versa, that the men like the ladies that show compassion and empathy towards them as well.

So the best you can imagine is some role it might play in sexual attraction? But contemplating what roles it might play in child rearing, caring for one's children, and community, etc... that's all beyond your imagination?

I'm also curious if you also deny moral foundation theory:

http://www.moralfoundations.org
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14-07-2015, 06:44 AM
RE: Another attack on moral subjectivism
(14-07-2015 06:11 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  I'm also curious if you also deny moral foundation theory:

http://www.moralfoundations.org
You should phrase that better.
Like "Do you support moral foundation theory?"
Or "Do you believe there is enough evidence/information for the moral foundation theory?"

Asking "Do you deny..." is already a loaded question, and assumes the premise.

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14-07-2015, 07:20 AM
RE: Another attack on moral subjectivism
(13-07-2015 07:57 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(13-07-2015 06:44 PM)Stevil Wrote:  What do you mean when you say "not right"
I can empathise with someone who has had their leg bitten off by a shark, am I supposed to believe that it wasn't right for the shark to bite the person's leg off?

How might I come to the illusion that it isn't right for the shark to have bitten off the person's leg?

Since you avoided the question, let's try and put it another. If empathy, that capacity to put ourselves in other people, is a product of Darwinian evolution, what particular survival benefit does it offer? How does it impact our behavior, what sort of beliefs tend arise from it?

Oh, for fuck's sake - everything about us is a product of evolution. All explanations must start with, and be consistent with, that fact.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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14-07-2015, 07:27 AM
RE: Another attack on moral subjectivism
(14-07-2015 07:20 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(13-07-2015 07:57 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Since you avoided the question, let's try and put it another. If empathy, that capacity to put ourselves in other people, is a product of Darwinian evolution, what particular survival benefit does it offer? How does it impact our behavior, what sort of beliefs tend arise from it?

Oh, for fuck's sake - everything about us is a product of evolution. All explanations must start with, and be consistent with, that fact.

I don't recall saying it wasn't. Extrapolating claims from a question I posed to Stevil, who tends to be a contrarian at every turn, is a bad habit.
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14-07-2015, 07:28 AM
RE: Another attack on moral subjectivism
(14-07-2015 06:44 AM)LostLocke Wrote:  You should phrase that better.
Like "Do you support moral foundation theory?"
Or "Do you believe there is enough evidence/information for the moral foundation theory?"



What he said ^
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14-07-2015, 07:31 AM
RE: Another attack on moral subjectivism
(14-07-2015 07:20 AM)Chas Wrote:  Oh, for fuck's sake - everything about us is a product of evolution. All explanations must start with, and be consistent with, that fact.

You're damned right, Chas!

Thus my Kroll Show "You jokin' me bro?" reference.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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