Another attack on moral subjectivism
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15-07-2015, 06:28 AM
RE: Another attack on moral subjectivism
(14-07-2015 06:02 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  quote]I don't claim knowledge, but if I had to guess, I would say it is a combination of nature and nurture.

What is your guess?

Some combination of nature and nurture. Much of it nature though.

Quote:It's very well explained by evolution why we would want our offspring to find caring mates rather than psychopaths/sociopaths. Again, just nature and nurture, unless you want to add god.

And nature would also be an explanation as to why we want our offspring to be caring, correct? We don’t want them to avoid mates that tortures animals just for fun, but we also don’t want them to be the sort of people who torture animals just for fun. There’s a great deal of symmetry in why we’re averse to these kinds of mates for our children, and why we don’t want our children to be like them.

It’s entirely conceivable from this, why a person would label those who torture animals just for fun as bad, and why they would label those who are caring, kind as good, just on the bases of their nature.

Agree?
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15-07-2015, 06:30 AM
RE: Another attack on moral subjectivism
(14-07-2015 05:21 PM)DLJ Wrote:  This, to me, is a revealing statement.

I think you've missed something.

Big Grin

Yes, I guess I forgot you. Though it appears you argue on both sides of the fence quite often. So that categorization is not that simple.
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15-07-2015, 07:06 AM
RE: Another attack on moral subjectivism
(15-07-2015 06:30 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(14-07-2015 05:21 PM)DLJ Wrote:  This, to me, is a revealing statement.

I think you've missed something.

Big Grin

Yes, I guess I forgot you. Though it appears you argue on both sides of the fence quite often. So that categorization is not that simple.

Missed 'something', not missed 'someone'.

That's kinda my point. What is 'the fence' as you perceive it?

Consider

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15-07-2015, 07:30 AM
RE: Another attack on moral subjectivism
I want to ask a specific question to the subjectivists

"If I lived in the American south during the 1700's, and wanted to make a living from growing cotton, would it be ok for me to enslave Africans to harvest the cotton for me given that within that society enslaving black people is accepted and slavery in this instance benefits my society and my pocket?"

"A witty quote means nothing"
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15-07-2015, 07:34 AM
RE: Another attack on moral subjectivism
(15-07-2015 07:30 AM)tear151 Wrote:  I want to ask a specific question to the subjectivists
...

Are you implying that you hold to moral objectivity?

If not, you can answer your own question well enough. Right?

Huh

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15-07-2015, 07:36 AM
RE: Another attack on moral subjectivism
(15-07-2015 07:34 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(15-07-2015 07:30 AM)tear151 Wrote:  I want to ask a specific question to the subjectivists
...

Are you implying that you hold to moral objectivity?

If not, you can answer your own question well enough. Right?

Huh

My answer is yes it is not immoral. but it's not my answer that I'm interested in.

"A witty quote means nothing"
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15-07-2015, 08:08 AM
RE: Another attack on moral subjectivism
(15-07-2015 07:36 AM)tear151 Wrote:  
(15-07-2015 07:34 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Are you implying that you hold to moral objectivity?

If not, you can answer your own question well enough. Right?

Huh

My answer is yes it is not immoral. but it's not my answer that I'm interested in.

Fair enough.

I'm not a 'subjectivist' so I'll pass on this one.

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15-07-2015, 08:31 AM
RE: Another attack on moral subjectivism
(15-07-2015 07:30 AM)tear151 Wrote:  I want to ask a specific question to the subjectivists

"If I lived in the American south during the 1700's, and wanted to make a living from growing cotton, would it be ok for me to enslave Africans to harvest the cotton for me given that within that society enslaving black people is accepted and slavery in this instance benefits my society and my pocket?"

Would you be okay if the person being enslaved in the 1700s was your own daughter or brother?

This interesting part of slavery in the 1700s it was never really justified for sake of economic gain, but relied equally on seeing the African as less than oneself, not an equal, very much unlike oneself. Which are lies, false beliefs, which slavery was dependent on.
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15-07-2015, 08:34 AM
RE: Another attack on moral subjectivism
(15-07-2015 06:28 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  It’s entirely conceivable from this, why a person would label those who torture animals just for fun as bad, and why they would label those who are caring, kind as good, just on the bases of their nature.

Agree?

Sure. I have no problems with someone not liking "x". It's when someone makes the claim, "I don't like x, therefore x is bad (wrong)." X can neither be good, nor bad. The good and bad can only take place in the brains of thinking things. When someone describes something as either good or bad, they are not actually describing the thing, but rather their perception/opinion of the thing, and therefore making a false claim.

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15-07-2015, 08:49 AM
RE: Another attack on moral subjectivism
(15-07-2015 08:31 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Would you be okay if the person being enslaved in the 1700s was your own daughter or brother?

This interesting part of slavery in the 1700s it was never really justified for sake of economic gain, but relied equally on seeing the African as less than oneself, not an equal, very much unlike oneself. Which are lies, false beliefs, which slavery was dependent on.

I wouldn't be okay with slavery, but I'd be perfectly fine with murdering the slave owners. I'm also fine with slavery of animals to a certain degree, but the criteria of the degree of animal slavery that I have come up with is seemingly arbitrary and based on a whim that doesn't really do anything but satisfy my own emotional desires. In other words, I'm fine with people owning and riding horses, and having them pull carriages, etc., but I'm not fine with beating the horses any more than what's required to get them to cooperate. I imagine many folks looked at African slavery this way, i.e. that there is a right and wrong way to do slavery (e.g. beating your slaves too much is wrong). Let me be very clear though, I'm not claiming a right and wrong way to do horse slavery. I'm very willing to admit that I only have a preference of how it should be done, same with my views on human slavery....only a preference.
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