Another example of BS statistics and Strawmen, in the guns debate
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
16-04-2013, 12:22 PM
Re: RE: Another example of BS statistics and Strawmen, in the guns debate
(16-04-2013 10:42 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  It was argued to me the other day that I shouldn't have guns because a bad guy could hold me up and take my guns, then I wouldn't have any guns. This was a professor mind you. WTF kind of stupid argument is that? I shouldn't have guns because their exists a possibility that I wouldn't have them? You could say the same for any object.

Anti gun and Pro gun people truly over-hype the "power" of what firearms can do or be.

Anti gunners,who usually have little to no practical experience with firearms, seem hold the power of the state, and the bad guy's might high on a pedestal. To them, the bad guy with a gun always wins, because he always has the drop on you, and then they add the extremely evident fact that owning guns will make you millions times more likely to shoot yourself, or family, but you are never more safe for owning firearms.

Pro gunners equally hold the power of the gun high. To them, simply owning a gun means they have the power and skill of any gunfighter to ever live, and they can fight off any evil no matter the size or situation.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-04-2013, 12:30 PM
Re: Another example of BS statistics and Strawmen, in the guns debate
He made a shitty argument. Owning guns legally is not the issue. Selling guns illegally, using guns illegally, and selling guns to people who are not qualified or mentally stable, is the issue.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-04-2013, 01:00 PM
Re: Another example of BS statistics and Strawmen, in the guns debate
You'll never get those issues isolated without pork.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-04-2013, 03:31 PM
RE: Another example of BS statistics and Strawmen, in the guns debate
http://www.volokh.com/2013/04/15/the-pro...n-control/
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-04-2013, 05:00 PM
RE: Another example of BS statistics and Strawmen, in the guns debate
(16-04-2013 09:12 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(16-04-2013 09:00 AM)bbeljefe Wrote:  As long as the focus remains on what people do rather than why they do it, no amount of legislation will resolve these problems.

And there are opportunity costs and unintended consequences to all legislation, so the perceived benefits of a law are just that, perceived.

For instance, a man who is charged with a felony for a victimless crime cannot own a forearm. That same man could be the victim of a home invasion and if he were armed, he'd have a much better chance of defending himself. But since he can't possess a firearm, he may well be killed by the perpetrator of a crime with an actual victim, simply because a paranoid law denied him the right to own a device that could save his life and property.

Likewise, a man whom I know was convicted at 19, of attempting to meet a 17 year old girl through the internet. The "girl" was an undercover cop and for the rest of his life he must register as a sex offender. The unintended consequence and opportunity costs to his victimless crime are that he is now unable to work at his profession due to the stigma that sex offender registry brings. In the end, he could very well end up on the welfare rolls for the rest of his life. So not only will his life be destroyed, he will also likely be a further burden to the welfare system simply because he was interested in having sex with a girl who was almost his same age. Factor in the costs of pursuing him and prosecuting his victimless crime and the cost is shown to be even greater.

In the end, there is no way to calculate the numbers of or the monetary costs of such incidents but they do indeed happen and they happen to real human beings.

Knowing all this, I can't help but wonder if people are truly interested in creating a net positive benefit for society or if they're simply interested in revenge.

I suspect the latter and, evidence supports my suspicion.

I agree on learning why people do these things, that is one of the best points to raise against the death penalty and/or just throwing them in a hole without a key. These people need to be studied, so that a similar person in the future, might be recognized early enough so as to prevent them from doing harm. Or even better, helping them so that they never develop into that sociopath.

But the issue is not just who, but also the what. Defining laws around people and the objects which they may use for harm, is also worth doing. If it deters even 1 sociopath, if it causes even 1 to slip-up and get caught, it it prevents even 1 death, then it is worth it in my book.

We already know why. What we don't know is how many people these ridiculous laws harm or get killed in the process of hoping they will help to stop one death.

Your argument for these laws is an argument for the death penalty as well. After all, if we happen to kill just one real murderer, isn't is worth murdering all those innocent people?

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-04-2013, 05:11 PM
Re: Another example of BS statistics and Strawmen, in the guns debate
Show me even one example of how less restrictions on guns, means more lives saved and I'll show you Australia
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes TheBeardedDude's post
16-04-2013, 05:14 PM
RE: Another example of BS statistics and Strawmen, in the guns debate
(16-04-2013 05:11 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Show me even one example of how less restrictions on guns, means more lives saved and I'll show you Australia

I see your Australia and raise you a Switzerland.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Chas's post
16-04-2013, 05:19 PM
Re: Another example of BS statistics and Strawmen, in the guns debate
Where everyone is required to serve in the military, register their weapons, and redo their weapons training yearly. We've been through this, I'd love to have those requirements here.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-04-2013, 05:28 PM
RE: Another example of BS statistics and Strawmen, in the guns debate
(16-04-2013 05:19 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Where everyone is required to serve in the military, register their weapons, and redo their weapons training yearly. We've been through this, I'd love to have those requirements here.

That only applies to their government-issue weapons. There is a large proportion of civilian weapons, as well.

The real difference is in the society. People there actually obey the laws. The government there enforces the laws. And the laws are rational.

The laws in Massachusetts and Connecticut, and the proposed federal laws, that ban certain guns are largely irrational. They don't address the actual problems.

The irrational, emotional, reactionary nature of banning certain 'evil' guns, especially ones rarely used in crimes, is one thing that angers law-abiding gun owners.
It certainly fuels the fear that there is an unspoken or a further agenda.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-04-2013, 05:35 PM
Re: Another example of BS statistics and Strawmen, in the guns debate
They have nowhere near as many "civilian" guns as we do. They have laws and regulations and the people follow them. We have 50 different sets of laws and a movement that demands it stay that way as they have no interest in a unifying set of federal laws.

So, I'm all for being like Switzerland. Good luck convincing the conservative right.

Evolve

Smartass
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/James_Beard2
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: