Another example of BS statistics and Strawmen, in the guns debate
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24-04-2013, 10:06 AM
RE: Another example of BS statistics and Strawmen, in the guns debate
(15-04-2013 01:34 PM)Elesjei Wrote:  Gun law discussions bother me, because there is the anti-gun side, which believes that gun bans are a solution to crime and that it will prevent mass shootings, and the pro-gun side, which believes that guns have no effect on crime and that the government is going to go all Nazi on our asses the second assault rifles are prohibited, and then there is the middle-ground side (which I am a part of) which gets drowned out by the back-and-forth of BS statistics, generalizations, and fear-mongering from the two extremes.

Exactly, and I really can't find anybody here vocal about banning guns altogether either. The previous gun debates, literally no one suggested the banning of all firearms. I supported stricter gun legislation, because that is the logical and legal thing to do. Pro-gun and anti-gun supporters are like the far right and far left on the political spectrum. People like Phaedrus, Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver, Chas, and TheBlackKnight all posses the identical tunnel vision on this matter. Their arguments seem to be directed towards people who want guns to be criminalized and I keep looking around trying to find to whom those arguments are directed.

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24-04-2013, 01:55 PM
RE: Another example of BS statistics and Strawmen, in the guns debate
(24-04-2013 10:06 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(15-04-2013 01:34 PM)Elesjei Wrote:  Gun law discussions bother me, because there is the anti-gun side, which believes that gun bans are a solution to crime and that it will prevent mass shootings, and the pro-gun side, which believes that guns have no effect on crime and that the government is going to go all Nazi on our asses the second assault rifles are prohibited, and then there is the middle-ground side (which I am a part of) which gets drowned out by the back-and-forth of BS statistics, generalizations, and fear-mongering from the two extremes.

Exactly, and I really can't find anybody here vocal about banning guns altogether either. The previous gun debates, literally no one suggested the banning of all firearms. I supported stricter gun legislation, because that is the logical and legal thing to do. Pro-gun and anti-gun supporters are like the far right and far left on the political spectrum. People like Phaedrus, Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver, Chas, and TheBlackKnight all posses the identical tunnel vision on this matter. Their arguments seem to be directed towards people who want guns to be criminalized and I keep looking around trying to find to whom those arguments are directed.

No, our replies are directed at those who want to make ineffective laws. Most gun control proposals do not address actual problems, they just add restrictions that will have no effect on crime or violence.

Please stop mischaracterizing my arguments.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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24-04-2013, 02:20 PM
RE: Another example of BS statistics and Strawmen, in the guns debate
(24-04-2013 01:55 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(24-04-2013 10:06 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Exactly, and I really can't find anybody here vocal about banning guns altogether either. The previous gun debates, literally no one suggested the banning of all firearms. I supported stricter gun legislation, because that is the logical and legal thing to do. Pro-gun and anti-gun supporters are like the far right and far left on the political spectrum. People like Phaedrus, Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver, Chas, and TheBlackKnight all posses the identical tunnel vision on this matter. Their arguments seem to be directed towards people who want guns to be criminalized and I keep looking around trying to find to whom those arguments are directed.

No, our replies are directed at those who want to make ineffective laws. Most gun control proposals do not address actual problems, they just add restrictions that will have no effect on crime or violence.

Please stop mischaracterizing my arguments.

You have yet to demonstrate how the list of laws I provided would be at all ineffective.

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24-04-2013, 03:13 PM
RE: Another example of BS statistics and Strawmen, in the guns debate
(24-04-2013 02:20 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(24-04-2013 01:55 PM)Chas Wrote:  No, our replies are directed at those who want to make ineffective laws. Most gun control proposals do not address actual problems, they just add restrictions that will have no effect on crime or violence.

Please stop mischaracterizing my arguments.

You have yet to demonstrate how the list of laws I provided would be at all ineffective.

You will need to provide a link to that post.

I was referring to legislation, not your list.
So please stop mischaracterizing my arguments.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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24-04-2013, 04:02 PM
RE: Another example of BS statistics and Strawmen, in the guns debate
(24-04-2013 10:06 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Exactly, and I really can't find anybody here vocal about banning guns altogether either. The previous gun debates, literally no one suggested the banning of all firearms. I supported stricter gun legislation, because that is the logical and legal thing to do. Pro-gun and anti-gun supporters are like the far right and far left on the political spectrum. People like Phaedrus, Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver, Chas, and TheBlackKnight all posses the identical tunnel vision on this matter. Their arguments seem to be directed towards people who want guns to be criminalized and I keep looking around trying to find to whom those arguments are directed.

What do you mean it is the legal thing to do? Anything that is law is legal. It's legal to own nuclear bombs if it isn't restricted by law. It's legal to mass murder Jews if legislation is passed.

Additionally, there have been people on this forum who held the position that we should outright ban guns. If I remember correctly, TBD was one of them. He isn't alone though, that stupid cunt-face democrat who introduced the last bill that was shot down voiced publicly that she would like to ban guns altogether.

I am not against all gun legislation, but I am probably less likely to go along with restrictions than yourself. As far as I am concerned I think that there are already too many restrictions, at least at state and local levels. Illinois, Chicago, New York, Tennessee, California and others are too restrictive. However I am okay with most of them (with a few exceptions). The states and local governments can put restrictions on them, and I can choose not to live there, so long as it doesn't violate the constitution.

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24-04-2013, 08:28 PM
RE: Another example of BS statistics and Strawmen, in the guns debate
(24-04-2013 10:06 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(15-04-2013 01:34 PM)Elesjei Wrote:  Gun law discussions bother me, because there is the anti-gun side, which believes that gun bans are a solution to crime and that it will prevent mass shootings, and the pro-gun side, which believes that guns have no effect on crime and that the government is going to go all Nazi on our asses the second assault rifles are prohibited, and then there is the middle-ground side (which I am a part of) which gets drowned out by the back-and-forth of BS statistics, generalizations, and fear-mongering from the two extremes.

Exactly, and I really can't find anybody here vocal about banning guns altogether either. The previous gun debates, literally no one suggested the banning of all firearms. I supported stricter gun legislation, because that is the logical and legal thing to do. Pro-gun and anti-gun supporters are like the far right and far left on the political spectrum. People like Phaedrus, Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver, Chas, and TheBlackKnight all posses the identical tunnel vision on this matter. Their arguments seem to be directed towards people who want guns to be criminalized and I keep looking around trying to find to whom those arguments are directed.

False. I tell people all the time that a gun is a solution to a problem that most people wont be faced with,ever, and in addition some people just arnt alpha enough to actually use one. I'm also def NOT for putting cops and shit in schools.

You've set up a false premise by claiming anyone who isnt for constant and "common sense" compromise must be an extremist, much like those always crying for more tolerance are the most intolerant people out there.

I really don't give 2 fucks what you claim to be about, because you are a nobody on a message board. The people out there Like Feinstien, Holder, and Bloomburg have saidin plain muthafucking words they're goals with firearms.





THe only people for "sensible gun laws" are people who wouldnt be effected by the laws anyways.

Until someone can find a bona-fide firearms expert who is for "sensible gun laws" you can go the fuck home!Big Grin
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25-04-2013, 08:06 AM
RE: Another example of BS statistics and Strawmen, in the guns debate
(24-04-2013 04:02 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(24-04-2013 10:06 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Exactly, and I really can't find anybody here vocal about banning guns altogether either. The previous gun debates, literally no one suggested the banning of all firearms. I supported stricter gun legislation, because that is the logical and legal thing to do. Pro-gun and anti-gun supporters are like the far right and far left on the political spectrum. People like Phaedrus, Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver, Chas, and TheBlackKnight all posses the identical tunnel vision on this matter. Their arguments seem to be directed towards people who want guns to be criminalized and I keep looking around trying to find to whom those arguments are directed.

What do you mean it is the legal thing to do? Anything that is law is legal. It's legal to own nuclear bombs if it isn't restricted by law. It's legal to mass murder Jews if legislation is passed.

Additionally, there have been people on this forum who held the position that we should outright ban guns. If I remember correctly, TBD was one of them. He isn't alone though, that stupid cunt-face democrat who introduced the last bill that was shot down voiced publicly that she would like to ban guns altogether.

I am not against all gun legislation, but I am probably less likely to go along with restrictions than yourself. As far as I am concerned I think that there are already too many restrictions, at least at state and local levels. Illinois, Chicago, New York, Tennessee, California and others are too restrictive. However I am okay with most of them (with a few exceptions). The states and local governments can put restrictions on them, and I can choose not to live there, so long as it doesn't violate the constitution.

You do not remember correctly.

Better gun laws, regulations, and restrictions, can make it more difficult for people to acquire guns for purposes outside of hunting and basic self-defense. In the event that someone slips through, better laws make it easier to convict them and better paper trails make it easier to catch them.

On top of that, better requirements for training and better mental health care, can insure that the jackass down the road who thinks that the Earth is 6,000 years old and that god talks to him doesn't qualify to own a firearm. Or the Army veteran who comes back from the war with serious PTSD and needs therapy, isn't given unrestricted access to guns until they can be deemed to be getting proper treatment.

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25-04-2013, 08:09 AM
RE: Another example of BS statistics and Strawmen, in the guns debate



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25-04-2013, 08:39 AM
RE: Another example of BS statistics and Strawmen, in the guns debate
Something else to keep in mind is that military personnel, career military professionals, and law enforcement, all have opinions on this too. And wouldn't you know it, some of them even support better gun laws. Well...I'll be damned.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/01/23/2...ntrol.html

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25-04-2013, 08:44 AM
RE: Another example of BS statistics and Strawmen, in the guns debate
And who would have ever guessed that the pro-gun side would make spurious claims with no support?

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013...fact-check

The second one is astounding. How incredibly safe it is to live in those states on the right, since they have so many guns.

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