Another example of logic vs emotion in the gun debate
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29-12-2012, 01:57 PM
RE: Another example of logic vs emotion in the gun debate
(29-12-2012 01:54 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(29-12-2012 12:58 PM)germanyt Wrote:  • Puerto Rico tops the world's table for firearms murders as a percentage of all homicides - 94.8%. It's followed by Sierra Leone in Africa and Saint Kitts and Nevis in the Caribbean
Sierra Leone is (or was, last I checked) practically a warzone... sayin' you're doing better than that ain't saying much...
That stat was lagniappe. It really isn't relevant to the topic.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
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29-12-2012, 02:32 PM
RE: Another example of logic vs emotion in the gun debate
(29-12-2012 12:40 PM)germanyt Wrote:  
(29-12-2012 12:00 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  From that same article you posted.

"Despite the recent decline, the number of gun homicides committed by teens and young adults in 2008 remained similar to the counts of the mid-1980s."

So it is not due to better gun control, it is in spite of it.
Just saying that more guns =/= more gun crime and less guns =/= less overall crime. We don't have a gun problem in the US. The sheer numbers of responsible gun owners is more than enough evidence that just having guns around isn't the problem. It seems more probable that we have a mental health problem. Especially with over/under medicated youths.

Right, so in spite of falling crime rates, gun crime is flat lining. Meaning that whatever is contributing to decreased crime rates, is A) not having an effect on gun crime and B) is not because of guns in the US.

You also pick out the countries with higher crime rates and murder rates. None are first-world developed countries. Compare apples to apples.

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29-12-2012, 04:23 PM
RE: Another example of logic vs emotion in the gun debate
(29-12-2012 02:32 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(29-12-2012 12:40 PM)germanyt Wrote:  Just saying that more guns =/= more gun crime and less guns =/= less overall crime. We don't have a gun problem in the US. The sheer numbers of responsible gun owners is more than enough evidence that just having guns around isn't the problem. It seems more probable that we have a mental health problem. Especially with over/under medicated youths.

Right, so in spite of falling crime rates, gun crime is flat lining. Meaning that whatever is contributing to decreased crime rates, is A) not having an effect on gun crime and B) is not because of guns in the US.

You also pick out the countries with higher crime rates and murder rates. None are first-world developed countries. Compare apples to apples.
As long as it's not a war torn country I don't see why it matters. Brazil has a ridiculous murder rate that one could attribute to poverty. Meanwhile areas of the US like Detroit, New Orleans, and Camden are also poverty stricken and skewing the gun homicide rates.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
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29-12-2012, 05:03 PM
RE: Another example of logic vs emotion in the gun debate
Because the culture is different. Income and class discrepancy. Poverty level. Education level. Etc.

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29-12-2012, 05:47 PM
Re: RE: Another example of logic vs emotion in the gun debate
(29-12-2012 05:03 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Because the culture is different. Income and class discrepancy. Poverty level. Education level. Etc.

Thank you! It's not about guns, having a gun problem is usually just a indicator that other fundamental things have went wrong. The inverse relationship to areas of high gun crime and gun laws isnt about the gun.
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29-12-2012, 05:51 PM
RE: Another example of logic vs emotion in the gun debate
(29-12-2012 05:47 PM)TheBlackKnight Wrote:  
(29-12-2012 05:03 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Because the culture is different. Income and class discrepancy. Poverty level. Education level. Etc.

Thank you! It's not about guns, having a gun problem is usually just a indicator that other fundamental things have went wrong. The inverse relationship to areas of high gun crime and gun laws isnt about the gun.
Take Mexico for example. Very strict gun laws but high crime. Also high poverty. Switzerland has very lax gun laws and very low crime.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
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29-12-2012, 05:56 PM
RE: Another example of logic vs emotion in the gun debate
And everyone in Switzerland has some form of government training due to having to be in the reserves. I respect Switzerland but access to ammunition is also restricted there, so bullets are not capable of being bought en masse.

And I realize that guns are not the sole issue, but as has been said before, it makes killing lots of people much harder to do. Can people still find ways to do it? Yes, but it is not as easy and making it more difficult makes it potentially harder to pull off without getting caught.

And I don't see any European democracies worried about their governments taking away their rights because they have limited access to guns.

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29-12-2012, 06:48 PM
Re: RE: Another example of logic vs emotion in the gun debate
(29-12-2012 05:56 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  And everyone in Switzerland has some form of government training due to having to be in the reserves. I respect Switzerland but access to ammunition is also restricted there, so bullets are not capable of being bought en masse.

You are over estimating their "training" a bit. They dont train, but qualify twice a year. Combine that with the fact that the ammo situation is what it is, and you get some rather bottom of the barrel firearms skills. This is also really all they do. All the rifles skills in the world dont mean anything if you can run,jump and ruck better then your enemy.
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29-12-2012, 07:58 PM
RE: Another example of logic vs emotion in the gun debate
Right, so regular training on a yearly basis. I'm all for that too if you want to own and operate a gun in he US. The point you were trying to make was...?

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29-01-2014, 02:16 AM
RE: Another example of logic vs emotion in the gun debate
First you must decide what you want to accomplish and then argue from that point.
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