Another reason Buddhism doesn't get a pass.
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30-12-2015, 06:55 PM (This post was last modified: 30-12-2015 07:00 PM by Brian37.)
RE: Another reason Buddhism doesn't get a pass.
(30-12-2015 05:33 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(30-12-2015 05:28 PM)claywise Wrote:  But am I mistaken in believing that belief in a god or the supernatural is not required in Buddhism? In addition, to my knowledge "the Buddha" (no doubt the air quotes imply all I mean them to) did not, himself, claim to be supernatural, only "awakened."

But I do have a friend who left America some 20 years ago and never came back. She was in the Peace Corps, then moved to Thailand to help Burmese refugees. She was pretty enthralled with Buddhism until she saw how the "Buddhists" in her midst (on the Thai-Burma border) were full of superstition and terribly cruel. In particular, she was disgusted that they looked at impoverished humans and abused animals and said (according to her), "Well, that's their karma."

Religion is all pretty goddamned stupid. Which isn't to say there isn't wisdom in some of it, and I've found some of the (no doubt Westernized) ideas of Buddhism somewhat useful. I am an atheist through and through.

Belief in that type of stuff isn't required. Though that's a segmented portion of all Buddhist beliefs & sects.

I myself have a fondness for zen Buddhist thoughts and concepts to a degree & those in many forms don't have any false deity claim or hardly much of a supernatural element to them. Just as much of it can be purely philosophy & lifestyle views. Though I don't know what percentages range in what ways, these forms of Buddhism aren't the sole ones. I am pretty sure much of the south-east Asia areas are more commonly filed with the type of Buddhism that does worship the figure as a deity.

Thats the problem right there, we just told you and you agree that that there are different sects and some do this and some do that.

The problem is people have a "fondness" but not just a fondness, a faith, and that faith causes divisions. Not just one religion ALL religions.

I really hate the argument for pluralism, not not the argument for the right to believe, but what that attitude has become. "E-Pluribus Unum" "Out of many one", and I am fine with that. I am just not, nor will ever be for blind value of an idea, and that is what religions are, ideas.

Because every religion has multiple sects and different interpretations even within the same religions, and since all of them make moral claims it is foolish to demand censorship and taboos, for any religion or any sub sect.

And I hate the word "philosophy" and "lifestyle"....... We are the same species, yes we have different ideas, but "philosophy" just like religion, without question can become equally absurd and abusive, like an economic "philosophy" Stalin had one too. I've even heard Catholics try to claim it is not a religion but a "philosophy".

"Lifestyle" that is another stupid word. It is a "style" it is a preference a like. "Lifestyle" is a loaded word and a cliche and is just as subjective as "philosophy".

There are only humans with competing ideas, and we all take the same ride and the ride ends the same for everyone. Our species has only recently crawled out of it's scientific ignorance and the west is far more civil by comparison and certainly more open.

Every nation on the face of the planet friend and foe alike, all have hospitals and prisons.

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30-12-2015, 07:14 PM
RE: Another reason Buddhism doesn't get a pass.
(30-12-2015 06:55 PM)Brian37 Wrote:  The problem is people have a "fondness" but not just a fondness, a faith, and that faith causes divisions. Not just one religion ALL religions.

I really hate the argument for pluralism, not not the argument for the right to believe, but what that attitude has become. "E-Pluribus Unum" "Out of many one", and I am fine with that. I am just not, nor will ever be for blind value of an idea, and that is what religions are, ideas.

Pantheism v. atheism - 6 of one, half a dozen of the other.

#sigh
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30-12-2015, 08:19 PM
RE: Another reason Buddhism doesn't get a pass.
(30-12-2015 04:37 PM)cmr211 Wrote:  ^Interesting post, people think Buddhism means peace, but it sounds almost as bad as some other religions.

Is it true about wasting rice and eating maggots ?

Haha yeah. The wasting rice > eating maggots thing is real. I remember quite clearly when my brother and I were taught these 'rules'. We didn't care too much though, we were more concerned about how many crickets we can catch.

I think it may very well be our particular cult of buddhism. The way I see it, religions usually get mashed in with what ever local customs are nearby. Take christianity over there for example, there are elements of buddhism, taoism, and local stuffs combined. I saw crosses on buddhist prayer beads, pictures of Jesus on ancestral altars, the virgin Mary worshipped the same way they worship Guanyin.

Man... the more I remember and compare, the more I see how childish religions are. What a colossal waste of time, energy and money.
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30-12-2015, 08:37 PM
RE: Another reason Buddhism doesn't get a pass.
All religions get their ideas from prior generations and or surrounding beliefs and can split and morph.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rastafari

I didn't know Rastafarianism has it's roots in the Abrahamic religions.

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30-12-2015, 09:03 PM
RE: Another reason Buddhism doesn't get a pass.
Buddhism is a good example of how people create deities even when there isn't one. What is it about people who feel the need to take a hero, set them on a pedestal and deify them? I think it's some sort of yearning for sweet perfection in a world of chaos, ugliness and uncertainty.

So people took a heroic figure like Siddhārtha Gautama, who never claimed to be a god, and elevated him into godhood with creative storytelling. Hummm. That sounds very familiar, like the stories of some water walking guy in the desert.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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30-12-2015, 09:38 PM
RE: Another reason Buddhism doesn't get a pass.
(30-12-2015 09:03 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Buddhism is a good example of how people create deities even when there isn't one. What is it about people who feel the need to take a hero, set them on a pedestal and deify them? I think it's some sort of yearning for sweet perfection in a world of chaos, ugliness and uncertainty.

So people took a heroic figure like Siddhārtha Gautama, who never claimed to be a god, and elevated him into godhood with creative storytelling. Hummm. That sounds very familiar, like the stories of some water walking guy in the desert.

Um no, ever consider that he was deluded himself or that his family sold him the story about him being a gift to the world? Ever consider that the stripping of superstition came later when people were called on it? Watering down religion happens in all religions.

Just like the bible, Jefferson made a very weak attempt to strip the bible of all the magic and superstition and wrote his own version.

You ask people today about talking snakes and talking donkeys they will cop out to metaphor. Yet many still claim the flood happened, and that babies can be born without a second set of DNA and that a man, after having all the blood drained from his bodied in an act of torture still rose from the dead. The cop out now to that story is that his "spirit" went on.

Point being people literally believed in all of antiquity the fantastic claims. Buddhism which is a spin off of Hinduism would have been no different.

The claim that he sold himself as just a man, well if that is true, it still speaks to the inefficiently of the idea of religion. How convenient to claim "it is ok to believe what you want(live and let live)" so if everyone likes you, and follows you, and you can incorporate your own beliefs into the personality, sure, no wonder he got elevated to a god in many circles, great billboard to spread the religion.

No different than Muslims who believe in Jesus and call him a prophet and not a god, and other Muslims call him just a man, while Jefferson just called him a man.

Religion unfortunately can be whatever the believer wants. Buddhism is no different.

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30-12-2015, 10:19 PM
RE: Another reason Buddhism doesn't get a pass.
(30-12-2015 09:38 PM)Brian37 Wrote:  
(30-12-2015 09:03 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Buddhism is a good example of how people create deities even when there isn't one. What is it about people who feel the need to take a hero, set them on a pedestal and deify them? I think it's some sort of yearning for sweet perfection in a world of chaos, ugliness and uncertainty.

So people took a heroic figure like Siddhārtha Gautama, who never claimed to be a god, and elevated him into godhood with creative storytelling. Hummm. That sounds very familiar, like the stories of some water walking guy in the desert.

Um no, ever consider that he was deluded himself or that his family sold him the story about him being a gift to the world? Ever consider that the stripping of superstition came later when people were called on it? Watering down religion happens in all religions.

Just like the bible, Jefferson made a very weak attempt to strip the bible of all the magic and superstition and wrote his own version.

You ask people today about talking snakes and talking donkeys they will cop out to metaphor. Yet many still claim the flood happened, and that babies can be born without a second set of DNA and that a man, after having all the blood drained from his bodied in an act of torture still rose from the dead. The cop out now to that story is that his "spirit" went on.

Point being people literally believed in all of antiquity the fantastic claims. Buddhism which is a spin off of Hinduism would have been no different.

The claim that he sold himself as just a man, well if that is true, it still speaks to the inefficiently of the idea of religion. How convenient to claim "it is ok to believe what you want(live and let live)" so if everyone likes you, and follows you, and you can incorporate your own beliefs into the personality, sure, no wonder he got elevated to a god in many circles, great billboard to spread the religion.

No different than Muslims who believe in Jesus and call him a prophet and not a god, and other Muslims call him just a man, while Jefferson just called him a man.

Religion unfortunately can be whatever the believer wants. Buddhism is no different.

Well, it doesn't matter if he was deluded from eating too many funny mushrooms or his family created his legacy out of whole cloth. There's no evidence that this person named Gautama proclaimed himself to be a god, though everything from that far back is sketchy and scant. From what I know, and I'll admit I'm certainly no expert, he was not depicted as godlike until a few centuries later when he was transformed from wise sage to a god capable of miracles.

Some people today are Buddhists but don't worship him as a god. They just follow his philosophy and meditation practices. And of course, it's been westernized to make it more palatable.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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31-12-2015, 04:44 AM
RE: Another reason Buddhism doesn't get a pass.
(30-12-2015 10:19 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  
(30-12-2015 09:38 PM)Brian37 Wrote:  Um no, ever consider that he was deluded himself or that his family sold him the story about him being a gift to the world? Ever consider that the stripping of superstition came later when people were called on it? Watering down religion happens in all religions.

Just like the bible, Jefferson made a very weak attempt to strip the bible of all the magic and superstition and wrote his own version.

You ask people today about talking snakes and talking donkeys they will cop out to metaphor. Yet many still claim the flood happened, and that babies can be born without a second set of DNA and that a man, after having all the blood drained from his bodied in an act of torture still rose from the dead. The cop out now to that story is that his "spirit" went on.

Point being people literally believed in all of antiquity the fantastic claims. Buddhism which is a spin off of Hinduism would have been no different.

The claim that he sold himself as just a man, well if that is true, it still speaks to the inefficiently of the idea of religion. How convenient to claim "it is ok to believe what you want(live and let live)" so if everyone likes you, and follows you, and you can incorporate your own beliefs into the personality, sure, no wonder he got elevated to a god in many circles, great billboard to spread the religion.

No different than Muslims who believe in Jesus and call him a prophet and not a god, and other Muslims call him just a man, while Jefferson just called him a man.

Religion unfortunately can be whatever the believer wants. Buddhism is no different.

Well, it doesn't matter if he was deluded from eating too many funny mushrooms or his family created his legacy out of whole cloth. There's no evidence that this person named Gautama proclaimed himself to be a god, though everything from that far back is sketchy and scant. From what I know, and I'll admit I'm certainly no expert, he was not depicted as godlike until a few centuries later when he was transformed from wise sage to a god capable of miracles.

Some people today are Buddhists but don't worship him as a god. They just follow his philosophy and meditation practices. And of course, it's been westernized to make it more palatable.

This happens in all religions, someone gets tired of the old ways, incorporates old ideas and themes which is why we see overlap of Buddhism and Hinduism. Just like Jesus was a Jew. Everyone here is arguing over magic, vs no magic of the first Buddha, IT DOESN'T MATTER. Buddhism didn't ditch everything about Hinduism anymore than Christianity ditched the OT.

The point is sage sage or god, the claim that one man is a cure for humanity is an absurd claim.

As with all religions, that was then this is now. ALL religions point to their kind motifs their moral claims and their "wisdom", some are less dogmatic and superstitious but and others are more dogmatic and superstitious. ALL RELIGIONS.

There never was or is now or ever will be, one man, or one religion or one moral list that will be universal to our species. All religions have pretty stories in them, all religions claim wisdom and morality.

That was then, this is now. It was understandable that humans did that back then, but we have much better knowledge of nature and the universe.

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02-01-2016, 10:24 PM
RE: Another reason Buddhism doesn't get a pass.
(30-12-2015 10:19 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  There's no evidence that this person named Gautama proclaimed himself to be a god, though everything from that far back is sketchy and scant.

Some people today are Buddhists but don't worship him as a god. They just follow his philosophy and meditation practices. And of course, it's been westernized to make it more palatable.
I have primarily had contact with Tibetan Buddhist thought and I have not seen it ever deify Buddha and in fact teaches actively against it.

At any rate I ended up rejecting Buddhism because of an excessive bullshit factor, despite its lack of deities and the potential, even somewhat empirically, of meditation. I just couldn't handle the robes and jargon and legends and trappings and sex scandals. Christianity burned me out well and good on that kind of thing, and I just don't have it in me anymore, particularly given that meditation doesn't seem to do squat for me.

I do borrow some concepts from Buddhism as it is in some ways the original self-help concept. Letting go of attachments to particular outcomes in order to reduce subjective suffering is a pretty good insight and stands alone without mystical woo.
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03-01-2016, 12:14 PM
RE: Another reason Buddhism doesn't get a pass.
(30-12-2015 07:59 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  mother Queen Maya that she would give birth to a baby who would bring wisdom to the world, he too had a birth that avoided the birth canal.


Its called a C-section
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