Another story of excessive police force against unarmed African American kids
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12-06-2015, 06:55 AM
RE: Another story of excessive police force against unarmed African American kids
I just find it interesting he went for his gun first...
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12-06-2015, 07:03 AM
RE: Another story of excessive police force against unarmed African American kids
If you're in the midst of a confrontation, outnumbered, surrounded, and someone approaches with their hand in a position that looks like they may intend to draw on you, you draw on them first. That's not just his own decision, it's exactly what they're taught to do and drill until it's instinct. Whether or not that's the proper course of action to be taught is a different debate and, as pointed out, whether or not they actually turned out to be armed or a threat is hindsight.

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12-06-2015, 07:09 AM (This post was last modified: 12-06-2015 07:13 AM by yakherder.)
RE: Another story of excessive police force against unarmed African American kids
And this is not a response to anyone in particular, just something I see come up often. The whole "police should be able to handle that kind of stress" thing. The other thing that often comes up is that they should be compassionate and empathetic towards the people they serve.

The reality is that the two don't mix. I've worked multiple aspects of law enforcement and tend to be quite rational in all situations, and not bothered by the stress of encounters that might weight on the sanity of others. This isn't because I'm a normal, well balanced, empathetic person, it's because I'm a borderline psychopath. I like to think I'm pretty good at reasoning with people in difficult situations, but it's mostly because of the sheer amount of literature I've consumed on the subject and the fact that I am able to remain rational under pressure, not because I personally give a damn about the outcome. But ultimately, if they sill commit suicide or something of that nature, I'm still gonna go home and sleep soundly without a second thought about it. Normal people will break under such pressure no matter how well educated or how well conditioned they are. There's no way around it.

So which is it? Do we want people who can function like robots but don't ultimately give a shit about the function they serve and can thus continue to do so without their failures weighing down on them, or do we want people who the public can relate to, and whom are eventually destroyed by the job they must do?

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12-06-2015, 07:13 AM
RE: Another story of excessive police force against unarmed African American kids
(11-06-2015 05:22 PM)Anjele Wrote:  There is still nothing to say that this would not have happened had the girl been white...or any other race.

After dealing with events earlier in the day, the officer should have been relieved from duty for at least the rest of the day.

I still say this isn't a racist incident.
How did I miss this?

If you watched the video, he was only going after the black kids.

Granted they were the majority. But the white kid who was part of the "mob" and was filming says he felt as if he was invisible to this cop.

I don't doubt that he is capable of exhibiting the same despicable behavior on little white girls.

But he would do that only when there are no little black girls to molest.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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12-06-2015, 10:01 AM
RE: Another story of excessive police force against unarmed African American kids
(12-06-2015 07:09 AM)yakherder Wrote:  And this is not a response to anyone in particular, just something I see come up often. The whole "police should be able to handle that kind of stress" thing. The other thing that often comes up is that they should be compassionate and empathetic towards the people they serve.

The reality is that the two don't mix. I've worked multiple aspects of law enforcement and tend to be quite rational in all situations, and not bothered by the stress of encounters that might weight on the sanity of others. This isn't because I'm a normal, well balanced, empathetic person, it's because I'm a borderline psychopath. I like to think I'm pretty good at reasoning with people in difficult situations, but it's mostly because of the sheer amount of literature I've consumed on the subject and the fact that I am able to remain rational under pressure, not because I personally give a damn about the outcome. But ultimately, if they sill commit suicide or something of that nature, I'm still gonna go home and sleep soundly without a second thought about it. Normal people will break under such pressure no matter how well educated or how well conditioned they are. There's no way around it.

So which is it? Do we want people who can function like robots but don't ultimately give a shit about the function they serve and can thus continue to do so without their failures weighing down on them, or do we want people who the public can relate to, and whom are eventually destroyed by the job they must do?

I just want cops held to the same standard as me. If I were threatening unarmed kids using a firearm, at a pool party (albeit they are being rowdy, etc)...I'd be in jail. They actually should be held to a higher standard, but since that doesn't seem likely...at least the SAME standard would be a nice switch.

Be true to yourself. Heart
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12-06-2015, 10:26 AM
RE: Another story of excessive police force against unarmed African American kids
(12-06-2015 10:01 AM)Deidre32 Wrote:  
(12-06-2015 07:09 AM)yakherder Wrote:  And this is not a response to anyone in particular, just something I see come up often. The whole "police should be able to handle that kind of stress" thing. The other thing that often comes up is that they should be compassionate and empathetic towards the people they serve.

The reality is that the two don't mix. I've worked multiple aspects of law enforcement and tend to be quite rational in all situations, and not bothered by the stress of encounters that might weight on the sanity of others. This isn't because I'm a normal, well balanced, empathetic person, it's because I'm a borderline psychopath. I like to think I'm pretty good at reasoning with people in difficult situations, but it's mostly because of the sheer amount of literature I've consumed on the subject and the fact that I am able to remain rational under pressure, not because I personally give a damn about the outcome. But ultimately, if they sill commit suicide or something of that nature, I'm still gonna go home and sleep soundly without a second thought about it. Normal people will break under such pressure no matter how well educated or how well conditioned they are. There's no way around it.

So which is it? Do we want people who can function like robots but don't ultimately give a shit about the function they serve and can thus continue to do so without their failures weighing down on them, or do we want people who the public can relate to, and whom are eventually destroyed by the job they must do?

I just want cops held to the same standard as me. If I were threatening unarmed kids using a firearm, at a pool party (albeit they are being rowdy, etc)...I'd be in jail. They actually should be held to a higher standard, but since that doesn't seem likely...at least the SAME standard would be a nice switch.

Cops will always be held to different legal standards due the the nature of the job.

This guy certainly didn't handle this well. Either it was a bad day for him or he finally got caught on video performing unprofessionally. They only way to know is to see how he acted over the course of his career.

While drawing the gun doesn't seem justified here, he did so after others rushed toward him. If you rush cops in a similar situation, some ill behave this way, fewer still will shoot.

Like most situations, everyone deserves a bit of the blame here. He stepped down and most likely will never be hired by another department.

" Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous."
David Hume
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12-06-2015, 10:35 AM
RE: Another story of excessive police force against unarmed African American kids

For the last 50 years Cops have been used in a war against the people they are supposed to serve. It has breed mistrust on both sides and with the advent of cellphone video and social media a lot of dirty cops are being exposed. Sadly some still wish to excuse any bad behavior by these thugs with badges. The thin blue line bullshit has got to be removed for this situation to get better. A bad cop should not be protected.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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12-06-2015, 10:37 AM
RE: Another story of excessive police force against unarmed African American kids
(12-06-2015 04:49 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(11-06-2015 04:55 PM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  Stop presuming:

A group of black children crashed a private pool party and were told to leave but refused, then were resisting arrest so the police officers had to use force and racist people are trying to demonize the cop because of the races of those involved.

Right, so you don't know anything. They were there, because they were invited by a black girl who was throwing a party and she herself lived there. It was her birthday party, and she invited these kids, to have a party at the public pool in the community she lived in. Then a couple of old racist as fuck white ladies started a fight, the cops got called, and one of them opted to lose his shit because he saw the pool party full of black kids in swimsuits as, in his own words, a 'mob'.

The problem here's isn't my presumption, it was that of the officer who saw a pool party full of black kids as an imminent threat. It was with the actions of an officer who saw non-compliance from an almost naked and clearly unarmed and non-threatening black teenage girl, and thought that was reasonable and justified grounds for taking her down.

How many were invited? Did she have a rental agreement to host the party? The community fee for the DJ?

So now, I see that you believe in eyewitness testimony and lived experiences? BTW, have you heard of the Miracle of the Sun, read the accounts, then surrendered your life to Jesus Christ?

You know, because lived experiences can be trusted and all...
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12-06-2015, 10:41 AM
RE: Another story of excessive police force against unarmed African American kids
(12-06-2015 10:01 AM)Deidre32 Wrote:  
(12-06-2015 07:09 AM)yakherder Wrote:  And this is not a response to anyone in particular, just something I see come up often. The whole "police should be able to handle that kind of stress" thing. The other thing that often comes up is that they should be compassionate and empathetic towards the people they serve.

The reality is that the two don't mix. I've worked multiple aspects of law enforcement and tend to be quite rational in all situations, and not bothered by the stress of encounters that might weight on the sanity of others. This isn't because I'm a normal, well balanced, empathetic person, it's because I'm a borderline psychopath. I like to think I'm pretty good at reasoning with people in difficult situations, but it's mostly because of the sheer amount of literature I've consumed on the subject and the fact that I am able to remain rational under pressure, not because I personally give a damn about the outcome. But ultimately, if they sill commit suicide or something of that nature, I'm still gonna go home and sleep soundly without a second thought about it. Normal people will break under such pressure no matter how well educated or how well conditioned they are. There's no way around it.

So which is it? Do we want people who can function like robots but don't ultimately give a shit about the function they serve and can thus continue to do so without their failures weighing down on them, or do we want people who the public can relate to, and whom are eventually destroyed by the job they must do?

I just want cops held to the same standard as me. If I were threatening unarmed kids using a firearm, at a pool party (albeit they are being rowdy, etc)...I'd be in jail. They actually should be held to a higher standard, but since that doesn't seem likely...at least the SAME standard would be a nice switch.

They should be required to follow a standard, but the purpose of law enforcement makes it impossible for that standard to be the same. As regular citizens, we are allowed to use violence only in response to violence initiated by someone else. But the sole purpose of police is to confront people on our behalf in the enforcement of infractions that we as a society have deemed to be illegal. If everyone cooperates in said confrontation, great. But if the police are denied the authority to choose escalation as an option in the event that they don't cooperate, then the laws hold no meaning. They're just words on a piece of paper. If, for example, they go to give someone a citation for jaywalking and that person's response is "Fuck you, I'll do what I want," escalation has to occur. If that option is denied, as it is in the case of a regular citizen, then jaywalking shouldn't be illegal. Unenforceable laws serve only to undermine the legal system as a whole. The same goes for trespassing. We might not have the option to use force to remove a non-violent person from somewhere they're not suppose to be, but law enforcement must have that option in order to serve it's purpose.

Whether or not that was the case with this particular girl, I don't know. We only have bits and pieces of the whole story. Based on what limited information we have, I would venture to guess that he probably was out of line. But as a general rule, the trend of every incident of force that surfaces on video resulting in a witch hunt for the officer(s) involved before anyone really has any idea what went down is a big problem.

'Murican Canadian
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12-06-2015, 10:43 AM
RE: Another story of excessive police force against unarmed African American kids
(12-06-2015 10:35 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
For the last 50 years Cops have been used in a war against the people they are supposed to serve. It has breed mistrust on both sides and with the advent of cellphone video and social media a lot of dirty cops are being exposed. Sadly some still wish to excuse any bad behavior by these thugs with badges. The thin blue line bullshit has got to be removed for this situation to get better. A bad cop should not be protected.

They certainly have to deal with bad cops in a better way. They too often try to explain away bad behavior.

" Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous."
David Hume
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