Answering Father Barron
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28-02-2017, 12:15 PM
RE: Answering Father Barron
(28-02-2017 12:11 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(28-02-2017 11:58 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Egor then.

Grasping at straws. How about heywood? Tongue

Tomasia ?
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28-02-2017, 12:16 PM
RE: Answering Father Barron
I'm actually quite surprised he's not posted this far less inflammatory piece, "Why Atheists Change Their Minds: 8 Common Factors" from Bishop Barron's blog.

https://www.wordonfire.org/resources/blo...tors/4729/

(28-02-2017 11:43 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(28-02-2017 11:36 AM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  Not all of his stuff is necessarily bad, but agreed that he's poor at translating what works in his own circle, to a wider one.

I find him to be a decent sort, far above the usual apologetic fare.

Fair enough. He's definitely far more kind and level headed than Ray Comfort, Ken Ham, Syten Bruggencate, and a few others. I'd actually love to see him and William Lane Craig debate some time.

(28-02-2017 11:44 AM)adey67 Wrote:  Prof, its you , Aliza and Kingschosen who stop me from posting blanket statements like "all theists are assholes" you guys give me genuine pause in my discourse. If only all theists were as reasonable as you guys.

Thanks! It's also atheists like you all that keep me from making blanket statements similar to the ones my co-religionist is making. Like the Secular Student Alliance where I went to grad school were utter assholes to everyone else (even threatening to sue to the university for denying them funding because the university had a policy that said they didn't provide funding to groups that explicitly discussed God in their paperwork). They were also kind of stupid, no one got why they were doing a spaghetti midnight dinner to protest my parish's free pancakes at midnight that the students called "Jesuscakes"; was it so much to ask that as they totally didn't realize the separation of church and state was indeed being followed by an off campus voluntary event with zero proselytizing (at our priest's insistence no less) that they make reference to being touched by the Flying Spaghetti Monster's noodly appendage, so that people got the reason it was a pasta dinner? Tongue

That said, the local CRU chapter was praying for us all to be smited with God's wrath equally... Consider Not even entirely joking there. A year before my time, that chapter got a formal talking to by the university after the local Neo Pagan student group and Catholic student group went to the administration to point out that they considered the very public and loud prayers for smiting and chastisement to be constituting threats. They still quietly prayed for it, just no longer in public, and the new SSA chapter got added to the spiritual hit list, as it were.

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28-02-2017, 12:17 PM
RE: Answering Father Barron
(28-02-2017 12:15 PM)adey67 Wrote:  
(28-02-2017 12:11 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Grasping at straws. How about heywood? Tongue

Tomasia ?

Dreher.

#sigh
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28-02-2017, 12:22 PM
RE: Answering Father Barron
(28-02-2017 12:17 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(28-02-2017 12:15 PM)adey67 Wrote:  Tomasia ?

Dreher.

Ohh nooo he was just fucking mad, I mean I know I am mad but he was proper bonkers batshit.
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28-02-2017, 12:24 PM
RE: Answering Father Barron
(28-02-2017 12:16 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  
(28-02-2017 11:43 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  I find him to be a decent sort, far above the usual apologetic fare.

Fair enough. He's definitely far more kind and level headed than Ray Comfort, Ken Ham, Syten Bruggencate, and a few others. I'd actually love to see him and William Lane Craig debate some time.

I'd credit him with too much intelligence. WLC is a straight lizard.

living word
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28-02-2017, 12:37 PM
RE: Answering Father Barron
(28-02-2017 12:24 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(28-02-2017 12:16 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  Fair enough. He's definitely far more kind and level headed than Ray Comfort, Ken Ham, Syten Bruggencate, and a few others. I'd actually love to see him and William Lane Craig debate some time.

I'd credit him with too much intelligence. WLC is a straight lizard.

Are you sure ? He could be a gay lizardBig Grin
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28-02-2017, 01:15 PM
RE: Answering Father Barron
Hi everyone! We're just childishly playing at atheism! And life is meaningless! Laugh out load

Dude- the meaning you give your life is up to you, whether you're religious or not.

And- "all the things we want in life- pleasure, money, power, honor, etc." is such a bullshit way to look at life.

Those of us who actually approach life in a more well-rounded way know that money is a necessity. We seek it because we need it to survive. We desire more of it so we can live more comfortably. The rest is gravy.

Pleasure is something EVERYONE seeks in some way. But it is not our ruler. We do the work we need to do so we can enjoy ourselves in our off time. Some people want more than others. We all need/desire enough pleasure to keep us happy through the work and tough times in our lives. The rest is gravy.

Power- not everyone wants power. I don't care to have a lot of power. But I do desire enough power to be able to take charge of my own life as much as I can. The rest is too much responsibility.

Honor- I don't care about honor anymore. It's unnecessary. I don't need to be recognized through the ages as someone important. Most people don't have this burning desire. I don't care for medals. I need enough recognition in my life to feel confident in my work, and confident in myself. The rest is gravy.

This guy is arguing against the typical straw-man atheists that theists like to dream up.
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28-02-2017, 01:31 PM (This post was last modified: 28-02-2017 01:40 PM by RocketSurgeon76.)
RE: Answering Father Barron
(28-02-2017 12:16 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  I'm actually quite surprised he's not posted this far less inflammatory piece, "Why Atheists Change Their Minds: 8 Common Factors" from Bishop Barron's blog.

https://www.wordonfire.org/resources/blo...tors/4729/

I don't mean any disrespect (it's certainly less inflammatory), but you seem to have not noticed that the only reason he's speaking "kindly" of atheists is that he seems to be implying that eventually we will "return to the fold" if we just keep our minds open... and then goes on to reference G.K. Chesterton, C.S. Lewis, and Lee Strobel.

Here's your Bishop's assessment of how an atheist reacts, based on Strobel's writing:

Lee Strobel, the former legal editor of the Chicago Tribune and author of the influential work, The Case For Christ, is a prime example of what happens when an honest atheist sets out to establish once and for all whether the claims of the Gospels are reliable or not.

Strobel writes at the end of his investigation in The Case For Christ:

“I’ll admit it:I was ambushed by the amount and quality of the evidence that Jesus is the unique Son of God… I shook my head in amazement. I had seen defendants carted off to the death chamber on much less convincing proof! The cumulative facts and data pointed unmistakably towards a conclusion that I wasn’t entirely comfortable in reaching.” (p. 264)


Now, it happens that when I read his works, I found C.S. Lewis almost as dishonest and disillusioned as Strobel, but I had fewer of the same issues with my reading of Chesterton (at the insistence of my then-best-friend, a Catholic), who at least seemed intellectually honest as much as anyone can be when defending a concept that boils down to invisible magical powers. Essentially, Chesterton's excellent rhetoric boils down to "the less we understand the magic, the more likely it is to be true, because God is bigger than we are", which I found to be... we'll say "less than convincing".

But my point here is that I read about half of your reasonable Bishop's blog entry, linked by you, because I was convinced you wouldn't link to anything that you knew to be dishonest. I invite you to read it again, with your two-chapters-in intellectually honest evaluation of Strobel's "prime example of what happens when an honest atheist sets out to establish once and for all...", and see if you can find it in yourself to continue to call him anything but a schmuck.

Edit: I saw the names didn't match, so I scrolled to the end... apparently "Matt" is not the bishop in question, simply someone posting on the Bishop's blog. Adjust my statement accordingly, please, and thank you.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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28-02-2017, 01:52 PM
RE: Answering Father Barron
A fair point RS, I only skimmed to see it was less inflammatory for the first point and didn't get down to Lee...Strobel... *sigh* My bad for not reading through the whole thing before posting it.

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28-02-2017, 04:33 PM (This post was last modified: 28-02-2017 04:39 PM by Thoreauvian.)
RE: Answering Father Barron
(28-02-2017 01:15 PM)Emma Wrote:  And- "all the things we want in life- pleasure, money, power, honor, etc." is such a bullshit way to look at life.
...
This guy is arguing against the typical straw-man atheists that theists like to dream up.

When people tell me that life should be meaningless for atheists, I point out that in an absolute sense life is meaningless for everyone (the Sun will engulf the Earth someday). But in a relative sense, life is full of meanings -- more than enough to keep us busy and satisfy our needs.

Similar to your assessment Emma. We only need so much.
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