Answering Sye
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29-01-2016, 10:04 PM
Answering Sye
I've been watching some videos of debates between Sye Ten Bruggencate and various atheists. It's clear that he has a script that he follows and he is counting on his debate partner's ignorance of certain issues in order to create a gap for him to squeeze his God into. Here is what I would say to him.

Sye: Could you be wrong about everything you know?

Me: Of course not Sye. I know for certain that I got up and had breakfast this morning, I know for certain that I am married with three children. I know for certain that I've never climbed Mt. Everest or been to Australia. I know for certain that I don't play basketball for the Chicago Bulls. I know many, many things for certain.

Sye: How do you know?

Me: I know by means of reason Sye. Reason is the faculty which identifies and integrates the material brought to me by my senses. My senses tell me there is something there but they don't tell me what that something is. That's the job of my reasoning faculty. I identify and integrate what I perceive by means of concepts. A concept is an open ended mental integration of two or more concretes on the basis of their similarities by the process of measurement omission. We retain the similarities while abstracting away or de-specifying their specific measurements. Thus we can unite an unlimited number of concretes as a single unit. This allows us to deal with a vast amount of knowledge, organize and integrate it into a cohesive whole.

Sye: Do you use your senses and reason to validate your senses and reason?

Me: Are you trying to suggest that I'm somehow involved in circular reasoning with this question? As I've said, reason is the faculty that identifies and integrates the objects that one perceives. Now once I've performed some conscious activity, that activity can be an object of my consciousness, albeit as a secondary object. I can observe through introspection the process I go through in identifying and integrating and I can identify and integrate those actions by means of concepts, Sye. Are you suggesting that this is somehow circular. Circularity is something that applies to a deductive proof, but not all types of validation are deductive in nature. Also Consciousness is an axiomatic concept, Sye. Since my senses and reason are the means of my consciousness, their validity is also axiomatic. I would have to employ them in any act of validating anything. Their validity is a precondition of the process of validating anything and your question presupposes that my senses and reason are valid. You are certainly expecting me to be able to perceive your question accurately and you are using concepts. Reason is the conceptual faculty and you certainly are expecting me to be able to understand the concepts you are using. Also Sye, the senses are self-validating in a non-circular way. I can use my sense of touch to validate my sense of sight. I can also validate my sense of touch and sight by my other senses. If I see an apple on the table I can reach out and touch it. I can also take a bite and taste it and I can smell it. I can hear the sound it makes when it crunches and I can say with certainty that, yep, its and apple.

Sye: How do you account for knowledge and the abstract, invariant laws of logic?

Me: I account for knowledge and the abstract, invariant laws of logic by means of the axioms, the primacy of existence and the objective theory of concepts.

Now let me ask you a question. Since knowledge and logic are conceptual in nature, and your worldview has no theory of concepts, how do you account for knowledge and logic?

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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29-01-2016, 10:14 PM
RE: Answering Sye
(29-01-2016 10:04 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  Now let me ask you a question. Since knowledge and logic are conceptual in nature, and your worldview has no theory of concepts, how do you account for knowledge and logic?




#sigh
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29-01-2016, 10:20 PM
RE: Answering Sye
Sye: But ..."brain in a vat bullshit"?

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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29-01-2016, 10:23 PM
RE: Answering Sye
I can't even begin to figure out why anyone gives him notice. Even christians have to be embarrassed. I imagine he has caused way more deconversions than conversions with his nonsense.

Oh, and to answer your question:

"Knowledge grows through infinite energy" -Deepak quote generator

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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29-01-2016, 10:24 PM (This post was last modified: 29-01-2016 10:27 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Answering Sye
(29-01-2016 10:20 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  Sye: But ..."brain in a vat bullshit"?





Remember what the dormouse said.

#sigh
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29-01-2016, 10:42 PM
RE: Answering Sye
(29-01-2016 10:04 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  Sye: Do you use your senses and reason to validate your senses and reason?

Absolutely we do. It's called learning. We learn to correctly identify and integrate sense perceptions. Errors can be made, but there are methods to correctly validate perceptions and correct those that are incorrectly integrated or misidentified. Learning is integral to the human experience.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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29-01-2016, 10:43 PM
RE: Answering Sye
(29-01-2016 10:24 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Remember what the dormouse said.

Sye: Exactly. Drinking Beverage

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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29-01-2016, 10:59 PM
RE: Answering Sye
(29-01-2016 10:42 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(29-01-2016 10:04 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  Sye: Do you use your senses and reason to validate your senses and reason?

Absolutely we do. It's called learning. We learn to correctly identify and integrate sense perceptions. Errors can be made, but there are methods to correctly validate perceptions and correct those that are incorrectly integrated or misidentified. Learning is integral to the human experience.

Exactly. On his view all reasoning is circular. Then he turns around and says that everyone knows there's a god because it says so in Romans. Unbelievable. It's precisely because we can make errors that we need an objective method to guide our reasoning. That method is logic. Logic is validated inductively, so no chance of circularity there either. Logic is a corollary of the axioms and the primacy of existence. logic is a set of inductive generalizations, not the conclusion drawn by deduction. Sye doesn't understand these issues, from what I've seen, and he is counting on the fact that the one he is debating doesn't either. It's pathetic.

You're absolutely right when you say that reason gives us the ability to catch and correct errors. Faith certainly doesn't.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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29-01-2016, 11:02 PM
RE: Answering Sye
(29-01-2016 10:20 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  Sye: But ..."brain in a vat bullshit"?

Yeah. Sye, we don't need to disprove an arbitrary hypothesis before we can claim knowledge. You should study logic 101 and then take a break and think about the way you conduct your cognitive activity.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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29-01-2016, 11:06 PM
RE: Answering Sye
(29-01-2016 10:23 PM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  I can't even begin to figure out why anyone gives him notice. Even christians have to be embarrassed. I imagine he has caused way more deconversions than conversions with his nonsense.

Oh, and to answer your question:

"Knowledge grows through infinite energy" -Deepak quote generator

I don't know how big his following is but he seems to get around quite a bit. I know he teams up with Eric Hovind sometimes. Can you imagine him, Eric, Ray comfort and Kirk Cameron together?

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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