Answering Sye
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30-01-2016, 12:16 AM
RE: Answering Sye
(30-01-2016 12:11 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(30-01-2016 12:04 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  My mom has recently joined a Baptist church and I know what you mean about the rabbit hole. I can remember being scolded in Sunday school for asking too many questions. I can remember being terrified if I had any sacrilegious thoughts, which I had a lot of since at age 7 I started to manifest the symptoms of Tourette's syndrome. I would sit in church saying God damn it under my breath so no one would hear and I was sure I was going to hell. I mean positive.

No theists, don't get any ideas of that being the cause of my atheism. If anything it made me want to be more religious. No it was not until much later in life after I learned how to think. They certainly didn't teach me that in church.


My dad used to listen to Led Zeppelin. Now all he listens to is shitty Christian rock. He lost his taste in music to satiate his god fetish. Dodgy

Christian Rock has got to be the worst music ever. That alone would cause me to deconvert if I weren't already atheist. Except Creed and Third day, as long as I don't listen too closely to the lyrics.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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30-01-2016, 07:14 AM
RE: Answering Sye
(29-01-2016 10:04 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  I've been watching some videos of debates between Sye Ten Bruggencate and various atheists. It's clear that he has a script that he follows and he is counting on his debate partner's ignorance of certain issues in order to create a gap for him to squeeze his God into. Here is what I would say to him.

Sye: Could you be wrong about everything you know?

Me: Of course not Sye. I know for certain that I got up and had breakfast this morning, I know for certain that I am married with three children. I know for certain that I've never climbed Mt. Everest or been to Australia. I know for certain that I don't play basketball for the Chicago Bulls. I know many, many things for certain.

Sye: How do you know?

Me: I know by means of reason Sye. Reason is the faculty which identifies and integrates the material brought to me by my senses. My senses tell me there is something there but they don't tell me what that something is. That's the job of my reasoning faculty. I identify and integrate what I perceive by means of concepts. A concept is an open ended mental integration of two or more concretes on the basis of their similarities by the process of measurement omission. We retain the similarities while abstracting away or de-specifying their specific measurements. Thus we can unite an unlimited number of concretes as a single unit. This allows us to deal with a vast amount of knowledge, organize and integrate it into a cohesive whole.

Sye: Do you use your senses and reason to validate your senses and reason?

Me: Are you trying to suggest that I'm somehow involved in circular reasoning with this question? As I've said, reason is the faculty that identifies and integrates the objects that one perceives. Now once I've performed some conscious activity, that activity can be an object of my consciousness, albeit as a secondary object. I can observe through introspection the process I go through in identifying and integrating and I can identify and integrate those actions by means of concepts, Sye. Are you suggesting that this is somehow circular. Circularity is something that applies to a deductive proof, but not all types of validation are deductive in nature. Also Consciousness is an axiomatic concept, Sye. Since my senses and reason are the means of my consciousness, their validity is also axiomatic. I would have to employ them in any act of validating anything. Their validity is a precondition of the process of validating anything and your question presupposes that my senses and reason are valid. You are certainly expecting me to be able to perceive your question accurately and you are using concepts. Reason is the conceptual faculty and you certainly are expecting me to be able to understand the concepts you are using. Also Sye, the senses are self-validating in a non-circular way. I can use my sense of touch to validate my sense of sight. I can also validate my sense of touch and sight by my other senses. If I see an apple on the table I can reach out and touch it. I can also take a bite and taste it and I can smell it. I can hear the sound it makes when it crunches and I can say with certainty that, yep, its and apple.

Sye: How do you account for knowledge and the abstract, invariant laws of logic?

Me: I account for knowledge and the abstract, invariant laws of logic by means of the axioms, the primacy of existence and the objective theory of concepts.

Now let me ask you a question. Since knowledge and logic are conceptual in nature, and your worldview has no theory of concepts, how do you account for knowledge and logic?

Sye would say that god reveals knowledge to him and that's the only way knowledge is revealed, he would then try to machine gun other inane questions at you, talk really fast and simply say he only discusses the bible with other believers when you try to pin him down.

His arguments aren't really arguments, he's just saying, I'm right because my god controls our brains and god communicates with me because I'm in the right religion.

It's circular on it's face, I suppose any person listening to this nonsense without being able to dissect it, just leaves with a sense that they've been lied to, and they would be right. I don't think this is anything but a way of pissing people off, if someone is really looking for answers to the question of god's existence, I don't think this mental masturbation is going to impress them at all, it leaves you with a sense of the hollow nature of apologetics and the hollow answers that religion provides.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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30-01-2016, 07:21 AM
RE: Answering Sye
(29-01-2016 11:11 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(29-01-2016 11:06 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  I don't know how big his following is but he seems to get around quite a bit. I know he teams up with Eric Hovind sometimes. Can you imagine him, Eric, Ray comfort and Kirk Cameron together?

He's not there to convert anyone, he's there to reinforce the belief of those already on his team; "Don't worry guys, ignore all of your doubts, because god".

He converted the trolly dildo to become a bigger more annoying troll though.

The easy reality to me has always been answering in I don't know responses to his gimmick as it only deals in "absolutes" in claims. Like his silly website of yes/no answers.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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30-01-2016, 07:36 AM
RE: Answering Sye
(30-01-2016 07:21 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(29-01-2016 11:11 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  He's not there to convert anyone, he's there to reinforce the belief of those already on his team; "Don't worry guys, ignore all of your doubts, because god".

He converted the trolly dildo to become a bigger more annoying troll though.

The easy reality to me has always been answering in I don't know responses to his gimmick as it only deals in "absolutes" in claims. Like his silly website of yes/no answers.

He claims he won't argue for his God since everyone already knows it exists and then he has a whole webpage devoted to a "logical proof. The Romans quote he uses says that God is self evident and so we have no excuse for not believing but then his website seeks to prove the existence of God which contradicts the claim that God is self evident. Something which is "clearly seen" does not need to be proven.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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30-01-2016, 08:17 AM
RE: Answering Sye
(29-01-2016 11:29 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  
(29-01-2016 11:23 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  But how can you claim knowledge if you can't prove we're not a vat brain? If you can't disprove that, then anything could be real or not real.

One can never be called upon to prove a negative.

Sye: Well I'm going to do it anyway. Checkmate. Tongue

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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30-01-2016, 08:43 AM (This post was last modified: 30-01-2016 08:53 AM by The Organic Chemist.)
RE: Answering Sye
I loved this exchange (not verbatim):

Matt D: Can you explain how you know I know something I don't know?

Sye: Everyone knows god exists.

Matt D: Yeah, but I can tell you that I don't know god exists.

Sye: Well the bible says that god is written on everyone's heart.

Matt D: (clearly more annoyed) Right, can you tell me how you know that I know something when I can tell you that I don't know?

Sye: Well, how can you tell me you're not a brain in a vat?

[Image: giphy.gif]

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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30-01-2016, 08:52 AM
RE: Answering Sye
(29-01-2016 11:06 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  
(29-01-2016 10:23 PM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  I can't even begin to figure out why anyone gives him notice. Even christians have to be embarrassed. I imagine he has caused way more deconversions than conversions with his nonsense.

Oh, and to answer your question:

"Knowledge grows through infinite energy" -Deepak quote generator

I don't know how big his following is but he seems to get around quite a bit. I know he teams up with Eric Hovind sometimes. Can you imagine him, Eric, Ray comfort and Kirk Cameron together?

Is Sye a YEC? If not, that would be funny watching them debate the age of the Earth. Vats of brains vs. bananas. At the very least, it would get Ray off the steeets for a while so he can't corner uneducated surfers on the beach.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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30-01-2016, 09:15 AM
RE: Answering Sye
(30-01-2016 08:17 AM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(29-01-2016 11:29 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  One can never be called upon to prove a negative.

Sye: Well I'm going to do it anyway. Checkmate. Tongue

Me: well Sye, reason is volitional and nothing can force you to be rational. If you want to think that I'm a brain in a vat I will not stop try to stop you. Now I'm going because I have some drying paint at home that I need to keep an eye on.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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30-01-2016, 09:19 AM (This post was last modified: 30-01-2016 09:37 AM by true scotsman.)
RE: Answering Sye
(30-01-2016 08:52 AM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  
(29-01-2016 11:06 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  I don't know how big his following is but he seems to get around quite a bit. I know he teams up with Eric Hovind sometimes. Can you imagine him, Eric, Ray comfort and Kirk Cameron together?

Is Sye a YEC? If not, that would be funny watching them debate the age of the Earth. Vats of brains vs. bananas. At the very least, it would get Ray off the steeets for a while so he can't corner uneducated surfers on the beach.

He claims that every word in the Bible is the absolute truth and he often teams up with Eric Hovind so I'm guessing he is. Sye, how do you know your not just a banana in ray's stomach?

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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30-01-2016, 09:26 AM
RE: Answering Sye
(30-01-2016 08:43 AM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  I loved this exchange (not verbatim):

Matt D: Can you explain how you know I know something I don't know?

Sye: Everyone knows god exists.

Matt D: Yeah, but I can tell you that I don't know god exists.

Sye: Well the bible says that god is written on everyone's heart.

Matt D: (clearly more annoyed) Right, can you tell me how you know that I know something when I can tell you that I don't know?

Sye: Well, how can you tell me you're not a brain in a vat?

[Image: giphy.gif]
I saw that one. I could tell Matt was getting frustrated. I think that Matt and other atheists who go up against him are reluctant to claim any knowledge, and so they kneecap themselves. Over and over in that debate, when confronted with "how do you know that" he says "I'm not claiming that I know.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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