Anti-Aging
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06-02-2014, 02:57 AM
RE: Anti-Aging
No, you said that all anti-wrinkle creams are bullshit, but there actually are a handful of ingredients that improve the appearance of aging skin.

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06-02-2014, 02:59 AM
RE: Anti-Aging
I am not going to help you with this. Go online and read through scientific journals yourself.

Fun "paradox": The higher the selection pressure, the slower evolution takes place.
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06-02-2014, 03:11 AM
RE: Anti-Aging
.......I have. That's why I'm saying you're wrong.

Jesus Christ, does ANYONE on this forum make sense?

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06-02-2014, 03:34 AM
RE: Anti-Aging
I'm seriously face-palming myself over and over again at your stupidity...

Have you READ my explanation on what aging is? How exactly do you think creams will help to solve the problem?

You're not only ignorant, you are also pretentious.

Fun "paradox": The higher the selection pressure, the slower evolution takes place.
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06-02-2014, 04:24 AM
RE: Anti-Aging
(06-02-2014 03:34 AM)Youkay Wrote:  I'm seriously face-palming myself over and over again at your stupidity...

Have you READ my explanation on what aging is? How exactly do you think creams will help to solve the problem?

You're not only ignorant, you are also pretentious.

........................You are so unbelievably wrong, I barely know where to begin.

Here are two studies on topical ascorbic acid (there are many, many more) that I happened to have bookmarked
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22206077
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12823436

There is literally *so much* in scientific literature about tretinoin and alpha hydroxy acids that to even bother looking any of it up for you would do no good.

Oh, and because we are on a forum of this type, I suppose it goes without saying that *you* were the one making the claim, so it was technically *your* job to provide the proof.

BrokenQuill, I'm sorry this jerk felt the need to derail your thread with nonsense.

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06-02-2014, 07:48 AM
RE: Anti-Aging
From what I have gathered over time (and I am not going to look for papers to substantiate this, so take it for the personal take it is) things like wrinkle creams are temporarily effective, you do look a bit better while using them. There are a ton of natural things you can put on your skin that will have the same effect and are cheaper and you don't run into the risk of using chemicals on your skin that have not been tested long term. Just google it.

Using soap on your face tends to dry the skin, and it removes all oils which are important. It is probably best not to use anything that removes oils. If you must, put them back afterwards.

Spa treatments mostly have a psychological effect - and in my opinion, it makes them worth it as long as you keep to the basics and don't overspend on weird shit. Massages, facials, manicures and pedicures are all very relaxing and you do emerge feeling rejuvenated. Nothing makes you feel as great as a good spa day - it's almost like a mind altering drug, and can get addictive. You can likely get a similar effect from Yoga and exercise. The real benefit is complete relaxation, and just floating along with the various touches to your body. While there is a lot of nonsensical woo created around spa treatments, they do have a basic benefit.

As per Youkay, it is impossible to stop aging.

As per Cephalotus, it is possible to achieve temporary, external effects that can make you look less wrinkled.

As per me - you can feel younger via Spa treatments, yoga and exercise.

From personal, anecdotal observation - I have friends who have always stayed on top of all the creams and lotions over the years, and I have friends who poopoo the idea. Looking at them, if there is any difference, the creamy bunch has more wrinkles. Probably because over the decades they have put all kinds of useless and possibly harmful crap on their faces. So, if you want to put vitamins and oils on your skin, stick with nature.

I think both Youkay and Cepha are right.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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06-02-2014, 08:49 AM
RE: Anti-Aging
Anti aging bull doesn't mean a thing if it doesn't make you immortal. Thumbsup
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06-02-2014, 09:14 AM
RE: Anti-Aging
(06-02-2014 03:34 AM)Youkay Wrote:  I'm seriously face-palming myself over and over again at your stupidity...

Have you READ my explanation on what aging is? How exactly do you think creams will help to solve the problem?

You're not only ignorant, you are also pretentious.


Hey Youkay--- I read your post and I thank you for it. I will add, however, that as a middle aged woman who's dealing with menopause and the effects of aging on the skin that Yes I do happen to own a couple of products that seem to improve the appearance of the skin. No, I'm not stupid enough to believe that a topical solution can Change the damage already there - but short term appearance - Sure. Those little bottles of miracles are sitting in my bathroom right now. LOL
*note* I am saying Temporary appearance change.

I think it would help to distinguish between creams that help appearance (and how short lived they might be) and REAL structural alterations. (?) That really is a discussion of two very different things.

As for being young and helping your skin look better in your older years:
Don't smoke and stay out of the sun. Eat good food and get plenty of exercise & good sleep patterns. Stay away from harsh chemicals use for the face. Use lotion if you have a tendency for dry skin. Not much else matters as far as I know. Thumbsup

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06-02-2014, 02:56 PM
RE: Anti-Aging
(06-02-2014 01:43 AM)Youkay Wrote:  First of all, let us understand what aging is before we make wild assumptions:

All cells in our body have a finite number of cell divisions they can perform. At some stage, cells enter a stage called cellular senescence. At this stage, the cell becomes unable to duplicate anymore. When senescent cells accummulate in an organism, diminishing tissue can not be replenished anymore, which leads to aging symptoms:

- frailty (muscle cells)

- wrinkels (fat tissue cells)

- loss of fertility (germ line cells)

- etc.

There are a few main reasons why cells age:

1) cells have linear DNA which gets shorter after every replication. In order to prevent genetic instability, the cell stops deviding when the chromosomes reach a certain length.

2) metabolism produces reactive oxygen species, which react with proteins and nucleic acids within the cell. This can lead to DNA damage and protein aggregation, inducing cellular senescence as a result of extra cellular regulation (the organism senses that a cell is accummulating DNA damage and "tells" the cell to enter cellular senescence or apoptosis (cell death).

3) accummulating DNA damage over time through metabolism, oxidative stress and UV irradiation

4) stress signaling leads can trigger extrinsic pathways of apoptosis, leading to either cell death or cellular senescence



So, what can we reasonaby do to prevent aging?

Aging can not be prevented. It is part of our nature and we can not avoid it. But the most reasonable thing to do would be to try and avoid things that would lead to premature cellular senescence:

1) Reduce your calorie intake to a reasonable level

2) do not smoke or drink alcohol.

3) avoid stress

4) avoid harming your body in any way. Harming your body means to kill cells, which need to be replenished by cell division. But there is only a finite amount of times that cells can divide. This means avoid using make up or anything of the sorts that might damage your skin.

and so on...



And there is a reason why we evolved to have aging cells, that can only devide a finite amount of times. It is to keep cancer in check until the organism is capable of reproduction. But that is an entirely different subject.

Would that line up with what David Sinclair is working on? Sorry I am not a scientist but I came across him researching my mothers Macular Degneration. He takes the pills I found for her and they seem to be working (Yay!). If it is good enough for him, it's good enough for me.
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06-02-2014, 03:30 PM
RE: Anti-Aging
Anti-aging?

Using your body is pretty good at that. I know a woman who is 57 yet looks in her early 40's at MOST. She's got a hotter bod than most of the obese 20 year-old girlies in America (she's older than me by 37 years - I'm 19 - and she's still got my head turning.) She's an ex competing bodybuilder, although she still trains. She does tons of yoga. She knows all about nutrition and eats accordingly.

^ Anti-aging. Good luck.
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