Anti-Feminism is poisoning atheism
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08-09-2014, 02:51 AM (This post was last modified: 08-09-2014 03:17 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Anti-Feminism is poisoning atheism
(08-09-2014 02:26 AM)Vosur Wrote:  This is one of the rare cases where you're being really stupid, EK. I'll elaborate on this when I'm out of the hospital and don't have to type on a phone anymore.

Please, do tell. I like attractive female protagonists, but there is a huge gap between male and female representation in games. When it comes to protagonists, males can be ugly and evil. How often do you find females allowed to be these things (outside of user generated protagonists like Skyrim, Mass Effect, or Saint's Row)?

Saint's Row is amazing, both for it's freedom of choice and for its (comparatively) equal treatment of women. Your avatar can be just as bad-ass if she's a woman, and the game goes out of it's way to refer to prostitutes as sex workers, and not 'hos'. I really like how Bioware (finally) gave a nod to female gamers and including FemShep in their advertisements and promotions, insofar as making the game's DVD sleeve reversible allowing you to have official FemShep boxart on display if you like. Those are awesome steps forward, and all credit to them.

But then you remember how much Naughty Dog had to fight to get Ellie on the cover of The Last of US, and how even one magazine doing a preview of the game actually Photoshop'd her out of the developer supplied promotional artwork for their cover (and how Elizabeth didn't even make the front cover of Bioshock: Infinite); and it reminds me of how much further we've yet to go.


[Image: the-last-of-us_playstation3_cover.jpg]

[Image: cover_close-updesign06.jpg?w=650&amp...amp;crop=1]

The fact that these covers were seen as a 'problem', is the problem. How that gets fixed is another question.



Game magazine scrubs Ellie from The Last of Us artwork (Destructoid)




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08-09-2014, 04:42 AM
RE: Anti-Feminism is poisoning atheism
(07-09-2014 09:51 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(07-09-2014 09:04 AM)Antonis Wrote:  You see from the countries you named only 3 of them was of the last decade. I said in one of my previous post that one day feminism was usefull because women didn't have that rights. Nothing is won without a fight.

In case you hadn't notice, feminism is far more than just woman's suffrage. Women still make less on the dollar than men, they still do not have adequate representation in government and other fields.


(07-09-2014 09:04 AM)Antonis Wrote:  About the video games the are very intresting women protagonist Lara Croft,Aveline de Grandpr√©.

Lara Croft
[Image: tomb-raider-2013-lara-croftpainting-lara...aoqogr.jpg]


Aveline de Grandpré.
[Image: ACLiberation-Aveline_CoverArt.png]


"So to recap, we're looking for a playable developer created protagonist who is not sexy or traditionally hot, with unique personal motivations that don't fall into the usual stereotypes, is not reliant on men in some trite way, and is you know, original and creative."

Facepalm

Our best example is still a Cthulhu-esque snake monster god from a 2 decade old fighting game.

[Image: 723.jpg]



(07-09-2014 09:04 AM)Antonis Wrote:  Also there are games like saints row that you can choose gender you play.

"So to recap, we're looking for a playable developer created protagonist who is not sexy or traditionally hot, with unique personal motivations that don't fall into the usual stereotypes, is not reliant on men in some trite way, and is you know, original and creative."

Facepalm

Our best example is still a Cthulhu-esque snake monster god from a 2 decade old fighting game.

[Image: 723.jpg]


(07-09-2014 09:04 AM)Antonis Wrote:  The reason there are more male protagonist is the same reason like in the movies because male character sell more, and companys want money.

Are you implying that woman don't play games? Could it possibly be because there are no decent female protagonists for them to really relate too, because the entire industry is saturated in testosterone? Who wants to bet they'd make even more money if they made games that catered to both men and women, imagine that?



(07-09-2014 09:04 AM)Antonis Wrote:  You missing the point people don't hate anita because they are sexist.

Threats of rape say otherwise.


(07-09-2014 09:04 AM)Antonis Wrote:  Sure they are assholes because death threats is a step too far but they don't care about her gender.

Like fucking hell they don't care about her gender. There aren't many threats of rape being made at males within the game industry whenever they snafu, nobody is threatening to rape Phil Fish (developer of FEZ), Robert Kotick or John Riccitiello (the CEO's of Activision and Electrionc Arts).


Antonis Wrote:...because men get the short end of the stick in many situation too.

I'm still waiting for your cavalcade of examples of men getting the short end of the stick here.



Ok this has gone out of hand i am not trying to justify the gaming industry sure all women are pretty with good bodies i just said the most male characters are good looking also( Nathan Drake,Ezio,) or if they are not they are still very masculine and always are alpha males. It is just more easy to sell that way so women that are hot or at least have some sex appeal will sell better that's all. I agree the game industry have to change but the problem is not so big and is more about profit than sexism.
But that's what i believe.

These people are absolutely pathetic and i don't want to defend them in any way but i just think they hate everyone that does something they don't like just the threats and name calling change if its a woman. But who cares about people who threat to kill someone for petty reason like this they don't even worthy it.
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08-09-2014, 05:15 AM
RE: Anti-Feminism is poisoning atheism
(07-09-2014 06:40 PM)Res Publica Wrote:  
(07-09-2014 05:56 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
[Image: Bw8KI0mIMAEjRVi.jpg]

A great Feminist.

That is laughable. If you really think that only old white men are taken seriously, I encourage you to open your eyes and turn on the TV for once in your life.

It would be really great if you had a sense of humor. Unfortunately ...

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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08-09-2014, 10:50 AM
RE: Anti-Feminism is poisoning atheism
(06-09-2014 03:59 PM)Antonis Wrote:  I think you have misinterpreted it for being about being all about equality. Feminism is just empowering women. Why feminist don't fight for men's right too then if they were
about equality.
How about we bring females up to par with the same rights and status as males and then we can worry about rights for everyone equally.

(06-09-2014 03:59 PM)Antonis Wrote:  Feminist care only about women problem nothing else thats way all shelter they make for domestic abuse are only for women despite the fact 40% of domestic violence victims are males, and i don't see them care about the fact that men commit suicide at much higher rates than women.
There are a few that care only about women. The rest that may focus primarily on women do also care about men.

(06-09-2014 03:59 PM)Antonis Wrote:  One last thing, even the name of the movement inticate that it is about women 'fem'
female get it? If you are all about equality why don't you just call yourself egalitarian a more appropriate and more neutral word?
Well duh, because things aren't equal. So right now, yes, the movement is about bringing women up to equal status. After that, when things are equal, there will be no need for "feminism" and any civil rights group for everyone can be called something else.

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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08-09-2014, 11:12 AM
RE: Anti-Feminism is poisoning atheism
(08-09-2014 10:50 AM)Impulse Wrote:  
(06-09-2014 03:59 PM)Antonis Wrote:  I think you have misinterpreted it for being about being all about equality. Feminism is just empowering women. Why feminist don't fight for men's right too then if they were
about equality.
How about we bring females up to par with the same rights and status as males and then we can worry about rights for everyone equally.

(06-09-2014 03:59 PM)Antonis Wrote:  Feminist care only about women problem nothing else thats way all shelter they make for domestic abuse are only for women despite the fact 40% of domestic violence victims are males, and i don't see them care about the fact that men commit suicide at much higher rates than women.
There are a few that care only about women. The rest that may focus primarily on women do also care about men.

(06-09-2014 03:59 PM)Antonis Wrote:  One last thing, even the name of the movement inticate that it is about women 'fem'
female get it? If you are all about equality why don't you just call yourself egalitarian a more appropriate and more neutral word?
Well duh, because things aren't equal. So right now, yes, the movement is about bringing women up to equal status. After that, when things are equal, there will be no need for "feminism" and any civil rights group for everyone can be called something else.


There is really no point in arguing about this, everything you just said is true. My earlier post made me look like something i am not. I like feminism as a movement i just don't like the few that care about themselves as you put it that's all. What i
believe is that by moving the good and real feminist that care about equality into a movement called eqalitarianism which literally means equality we will leave the bad minority without somewhere to back their claims because they will be alone, right now they use real feminists like creationist use moderate christians.
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08-09-2014, 11:14 AM
RE: Anti-Feminism is poisoning atheism
(08-09-2014 11:12 AM)Antonis Wrote:  
(08-09-2014 10:50 AM)Impulse Wrote:  How about we bring females up to par with the same rights and status as males and then we can worry about rights for everyone equally.

There are a few that care only about women. The rest that may focus primarily on women do also care about men.

Well duh, because things aren't equal. So right now, yes, the movement is about bringing women up to equal status. After that, when things are equal, there will be no need for "feminism" and any civil rights group for everyone can be called something else.


There is really no point in arguing about this, everything you just said is true. My earlier post made me look like something i am not. I like feminism as a movement i just don't like the few that care about themselves as you put it that's all. What i
believe is that by moving the good and real feminist that care about equality into a movement called eqalitarianism which literally means equality we will leave the bad minority without somewhere to back their claims because they will be alone, right now they use real feminists like creationist use moderate christians.

Problem with that is the extreme fringe will always follow you. Every group has crazies so just changing the name will never solve the problem.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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08-09-2014, 11:34 AM
RE: Anti-Feminism is poisoning atheism
(08-09-2014 11:12 AM)Antonis Wrote:  There is really no point in arguing about this, everything you just said is true. My earlier post made me look like something i am not. I like feminism as a movement i just don't like the few that care about themselves as you put it that's all. What i
believe is that by moving the good and real feminist that care about equality into a movement called eqalitarianism which literally means equality we will leave the bad minority without somewhere to back their claims because they will be alone, right now they use real feminists like creationist use moderate christians.
There have been outliers throughout the existence of the feminist movement and yet look at all the good that has come from it so far anyway. Why give up on it now? Drinking Beverage

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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08-09-2014, 11:40 AM
RE: Anti-Feminism is poisoning atheism
(08-09-2014 11:34 AM)Impulse Wrote:  
(08-09-2014 11:12 AM)Antonis Wrote:  There is really no point in arguing about this, everything you just said is true. My earlier post made me look like something i am not. I like feminism as a movement i just don't like the few that care about themselves as you put it that's all. What i
believe is that by moving the good and real feminist that care about equality into a movement called eqalitarianism which literally means equality we will leave the bad minority without somewhere to back their claims because they will be alone, right now they use real feminists like creationist use moderate christians.
There have been outliers throughout the existence of the feminist movement and yet look at all the good that has come from it so far anyway. Why give up on it now? Drinking Beverage

Probably changing the name won't change a thing, but i really thing that people thing in language at least most common people. Changing the name will make extremist more difficult to infest the organization and make the common men feel less hostile about the organization or atleast i hope so.
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08-09-2014, 11:46 AM
RE: Anti-Feminism is poisoning atheism
(08-09-2014 11:40 AM)Antonis Wrote:  Probably changing the name won't change a thing,...
I agree, it won't.

(08-09-2014 11:40 AM)Antonis Wrote:  ...but i really thing that people thing in language at least most common people. Changing the name will make extremist more difficult to infest the organization and make the common men feel less hostile about the organization or atleast i hope so.
I don't see why it would. Everyone would still know what the organization is about so anyone with an attitude or an agenda would still have one. A name is just a name. That said, I don't see any big problem with the movement as it is and thus no need to try to reduce the number of extremists anyway.

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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08-09-2014, 11:58 AM
RE: Anti-Feminism is poisoning atheism
(08-09-2014 11:46 AM)Impulse Wrote:  
(08-09-2014 11:40 AM)Antonis Wrote:  Probably changing the name won't change a thing,...
I agree, it won't.

(08-09-2014 11:40 AM)Antonis Wrote:  ...but i really thing that people thing in language at least most common people. Changing the name will make extremist more difficult to infest the organization and make the common men feel less hostile about the organization or atleast i hope so.
I don't see why it would. Everyone would still know what the organization is about so anyone with an attitude or an agenda would still have one. A name is just a name. That said, I don't see any big problem with the movement as it is and thus no need to try to reduce the number of extremists anyway.

There are a lot of men who don't want to call themselves feminists because of the 'fem' maybe in people like you and me who value critical thinking and scepticism a name won't change a thing, but for the millions of sheep that lack any critical thinking the change of the name will help. I understand why you think it won't and it's totally logical but i think my argument have a basis too.
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