Anti-Feminism is poisoning atheism
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09-09-2014, 09:45 AM
RE: Anti-Feminism is poisoning atheism
In all frankness, I disagree with some feminist rhetoric. I don't think that because a female in a game is simply attractive or showing a lot of skin means that it is sexist or oppressive. Likewise, some cases presented from Anita Sarkessian are dishonest or misleading, like saying Hitman is a game with the objective of taking out strippers with no reason.
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09-09-2014, 10:35 AM
RE: Anti-Feminism is poisoning atheism
(09-09-2014 09:45 AM)Kaepora Gaebora Wrote:  In all frankness, I disagree with some feminist rhetoric. I don't think that because a female in a game is simply attractive or showing a lot of skin means that it is sexist or oppressive. Likewise, some cases presented from Anita Sarkessian are dishonest or misleading, like saying Hitman is a game with the objective of taking out strippers with no reason.

Ok hear me out cause I am going to go deep here, this is not directed at anyone in particular here. Outfits are a symptom of the problem not the problem itself. They do slightly marginalise female characters but if that was all there was then I doubt there would be the issue there is in gamer culture. The big problem in gaming, more so than any other single issue is the use of Girl as prize. You just saved the kingdom you win some pussy. Real life does not work like that yet we have trained an entire generation of boys that this is how it should be.

The rise of the "friendzone" bullshit shows that a common sentiment is if you are a nice human being you deserve any woman you want regardless of her feelings. The sense of entitlement a lot of young men have is staggering, brought about by some well meaning but horrible advice such as just be yourself. You know what sometimes you do have to conform to get along with people. If you being yourself is unbathed and out of shape then guess what girls are not going to want to hang around with you. Yet their whole lives these kids have been told that be yourself and you will get ahead, be a nice guy and they will love you. The problem with all this is the fact that it dehumanises women. They are prizes for participation. So when in real life this backfires and your "crush" wont notice you it must be because she is a bitch and feminism is poisoning society and anger and pain.

This is a major issue right now and it has painted a very distinct US vs Them attitude that is incredibly unhealthy. This is why videogames are important. This is why this discussion needs to take place. I don't blame these poor kids for being confused they were sent mixed messages their entire life. But at some point they have to accept that reality is not the package they have been sold and move on. If we change the culture inside of games themselves to more accurately reflect what real life is like when dealing with women then maybe we will see some improvement on this front.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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09-09-2014, 11:05 AM
RE: Anti-Feminism is poisoning atheism
(09-09-2014 10:35 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(09-09-2014 09:45 AM)Kaepora Gaebora Wrote:  In all frankness, I disagree with some feminist rhetoric. I don't think that because a female in a game is simply attractive or showing a lot of skin means that it is sexist or oppressive. Likewise, some cases presented from Anita Sarkessian are dishonest or misleading, like saying Hitman is a game with the objective of taking out strippers with no reason.

Ok hear me out cause I am going to go deep here, this is not directed at anyone in particular here. Outfits are a symptom of the problem not the problem itself. They do slightly marginalise female characters but if that was all there was then I doubt there would be the issue there is in gamer culture. The big problem in gaming, more so than any other single issue is the use of Girl as prize. You just saved the kingdom you win some pussy. Real life does not work like that yet we have trained an entire generation of boys that this is how it should be.

The rise of the "friendzone" bullshit shows that a common sentiment is if you are a nice human being you deserve any woman you want regardless of her feelings. The sense of entitlement a lot of young men have is staggering, brought about by some well meaning but horrible advice such as just be yourself. You know what sometimes you do have to conform to get along with people. If you being yourself is unbathed and out of shape then guess what girls are not going to want to hang around with you. Yet their whole lives these kids have been told that be yourself and you will get ahead, be a nice guy and they will love you. The problem with all this is the fact that it dehumanises women. They are prizes for participation. So when in real life this backfires and your "crush" wont notice you it must be because she is a bitch and feminism is poisoning society and anger and pain.

This is a major issue right now and it has painted a very distinct US vs Them attitude that is incredibly unhealthy. This is why videogames are important. This is why this discussion needs to take place. I don't blame these poor kids for being confused they were sent mixed messages their entire life. But at some point they have to accept that reality is not the package they have been sold and move on. If we change the culture inside of games themselves to more accurately reflect what real life is like when dealing with women then maybe we will see some improvement on this front.

Really great post Rev.

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09-09-2014, 11:09 AM
RE: Anti-Feminism is poisoning atheism
(09-09-2014 09:28 AM)Kaepora Gaebora Wrote:  
(09-09-2014 08:59 AM)Hobbitgirl Wrote:  While I don't care about women in video games (In fact I find most of the costumes quite amusing...have you seen Ivy? I mean seriously LOL) I certainly understand the complaints that some women have. Not because the women in the games are prettier than me (I am no video game girl) but because feminists are right about some of the things they say.

Ivy's suit is made possible by magic. Some magician said Wingardium Leviosa to her bosom and they magically float there. Big Grin

Yeah....magic...or plastic surgery.

I gotta say though. If I looked like that I'd probably want armour like that too! Tongue
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09-09-2014, 11:12 AM
RE: Anti-Feminism is poisoning atheism
(09-09-2014 10:35 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(09-09-2014 09:45 AM)Kaepora Gaebora Wrote:  In all frankness, I disagree with some feminist rhetoric. I don't think that because a female in a game is simply attractive or showing a lot of skin means that it is sexist or oppressive. Likewise, some cases presented from Anita Sarkessian are dishonest or misleading, like saying Hitman is a game with the objective of taking out strippers with no reason.

Ok hear me out cause I am going to go deep here, this is not directed at anyone in particular here. Outfits are a symptom of the problem not the problem itself. They do slightly marginalise female characters but if that was all there was then I doubt there would be the issue there is in gamer culture. The big problem in gaming, more so than any other single issue is the use of Girl as prize. You just saved the kingdom you win some pussy. Real life does not work like that yet we have trained an entire generation of boys that this is how it should be.

The rise of the "friendzone" bullshit shows that a common sentiment is if you are a nice human being you deserve any woman you want regardless of her feelings. The sense of entitlement a lot of young men have is staggering, brought about by some well meaning but horrible advice such as just be yourself. You know what sometimes you do have to conform to get along with people. If you being yourself is unbathed and out of shape then guess what girls are not going to want to hang around with you. Yet their whole lives these kids have been told that be yourself and you will get ahead, be a nice guy and they will love you. The problem with all this is the fact that it dehumanises women. They are prizes for participation. So when in real life this backfires and your "crush" wont notice you it must be because she is a bitch and feminism is poisoning society and anger and pain.

This is a major issue right now and it has painted a very distinct US vs Them attitude that is incredibly unhealthy. This is why videogames are important. This is why this discussion needs to take place. I don't blame these poor kids for being confused they were sent mixed messages their entire life. But at some point they have to accept that reality is not the package they have been sold and move on. If we change the culture inside of games themselves to more accurately reflect what real life is like when dealing with women then maybe we will see some improvement on this front.

See the damsel in distress thing isnt really that big an issue to me. Its the fact that women are not represented in games very often as strong characters. It is becoming better though, as some people have pointed out strong female leads are becoming more prominent.

But besides that Rev, excellent post.
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09-09-2014, 11:20 AM
RE: Anti-Feminism is poisoning atheism
(09-09-2014 11:12 AM)Hobbitgirl Wrote:  
(09-09-2014 10:35 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Ok hear me out cause I am going to go deep here, this is not directed at anyone in particular here. Outfits are a symptom of the problem not the problem itself. They do slightly marginalise female characters but if that was all there was then I doubt there would be the issue there is in gamer culture. The big problem in gaming, more so than any other single issue is the use of Girl as prize. You just saved the kingdom you win some pussy. Real life does not work like that yet we have trained an entire generation of boys that this is how it should be.

The rise of the "friendzone" bullshit shows that a common sentiment is if you are a nice human being you deserve any woman you want regardless of her feelings. The sense of entitlement a lot of young men have is staggering, brought about by some well meaning but horrible advice such as just be yourself. You know what sometimes you do have to conform to get along with people. If you being yourself is unbathed and out of shape then guess what girls are not going to want to hang around with you. Yet their whole lives these kids have been told that be yourself and you will get ahead, be a nice guy and they will love you. The problem with all this is the fact that it dehumanises women. They are prizes for participation. So when in real life this backfires and your "crush" wont notice you it must be because she is a bitch and feminism is poisoning society and anger and pain.

This is a major issue right now and it has painted a very distinct US vs Them attitude that is incredibly unhealthy. This is why videogames are important. This is why this discussion needs to take place. I don't blame these poor kids for being confused they were sent mixed messages their entire life. But at some point they have to accept that reality is not the package they have been sold and move on. If we change the culture inside of games themselves to more accurately reflect what real life is like when dealing with women then maybe we will see some improvement on this front.

See the damsel in distress thing isnt really that big an issue to me. Its the fact that women are not represented in games very often as strong characters. It is becoming better though, as some people have pointed out strong female leads are becoming more prominent.

But besides that Rev, excellent post.

It is not just the Damsel in distress situation where the Girl as Prize comes up. Dating sims, most rpgs with a romance option, nearly every game with a female supporting character will at some point offer her up as a prize. It is more rare for a female character in a game not be offered as a prize.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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09-09-2014, 11:24 AM
RE: Anti-Feminism is poisoning atheism
(09-09-2014 11:20 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(09-09-2014 11:12 AM)Hobbitgirl Wrote:  See the damsel in distress thing isnt really that big an issue to me. Its the fact that women are not represented in games very often as strong characters. It is becoming better though, as some people have pointed out strong female leads are becoming more prominent.

But besides that Rev, excellent post.

It is not just the Damsel in distress situation where the Girl as Prize comes up. Dating sims, most rpgs with a romance option, nearly every game with a female supporting character will at some point offer her up as a prize. It is more rare for a female character in a game not be offered as a prize.

I agree. Men should be offered up as prizes more often. Just to make it fair.

Seriously though, there have been improvements since the market has been getting more females in it. Part of the problem is women werent a big gaming group for a long time, so game makers catered to their market.
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09-09-2014, 11:31 AM
RE: Anti-Feminism is poisoning atheism
(09-09-2014 10:35 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(09-09-2014 09:45 AM)Kaepora Gaebora Wrote:  In all frankness, I disagree with some feminist rhetoric. I don't think that because a female in a game is simply attractive or showing a lot of skin means that it is sexist or oppressive. Likewise, some cases presented from Anita Sarkessian are dishonest or misleading, like saying Hitman is a game with the objective of taking out strippers with no reason.

Ok hear me out cause I am going to go deep here, this is not directed at anyone in particular here. Outfits are a symptom of the problem not the problem itself. They do slightly marginalise female characters but if that was all there was then I doubt there would be the issue there is in gamer culture. The big problem in gaming, more so than any other single issue is the use of Girl as prize. You just saved the kingdom you win some pussy. Real life does not work like that yet we have trained an entire generation of boys that this is how it should be.

The rise of the "friendzone" bullshit shows that a common sentiment is if you are a nice human being you deserve any woman you want regardless of her feelings. The sense of entitlement a lot of young men have is staggering, brought about by some well meaning but horrible advice such as just be yourself. You know what sometimes you do have to conform to get along with people. If you being yourself is unbathed and out of shape then guess what girls are not going to want to hang around with you. Yet their whole lives these kids have been told that be yourself and you will get ahead, be a nice guy and they will love you. The problem with all this is the fact that it dehumanises women. They are prizes for participation. So when in real life this backfires and your "crush" wont notice you it must be because she is a bitch and feminism is poisoning society and anger and pain.

This is a major issue right now and it has painted a very distinct US vs Them attitude that is incredibly unhealthy. This is why videogames are important. This is why this discussion needs to take place. I don't blame these poor kids for being confused they were sent mixed messages their entire life. But at some point they have to accept that reality is not the package they have been sold and move on. If we change the culture inside of games themselves to more accurately reflect what real life is like when dealing with women then maybe we will see some improvement on this front.

Well said, however ...

To the matter of video games: who do you think authors these games for what audience? Consider

Bingo! Primarily young men. So, yes, they largely exhibit the attitudes of that demographic.

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09-09-2014, 11:51 AM
RE: Anti-Feminism is poisoning atheism
(08-09-2014 05:21 PM)Antonis Wrote:  I am sorry to misinterpret your intention i was under a lot of attacks before in this thread, it was my fault too because i wasn't clear in my post about my beliefs
No worries.

(08-09-2014 05:21 PM)Antonis Wrote:  This post let me see your point more clearly this time. I was talking about the first category of people that misunderstand the real meaning of feminism, this people won't spend time to search and understand what feminism really is trying to achieve so a friendlier name maybe will make the movement more appealing to the masses.
The problem with this group of people is a change in terms is unlikely to accomplish anything. By your own description, they won't spend time to search and understand what it is all about so we can expect the same behavior even if you change the term to something besides feminism. I don't see how a term that can't be mistaken as "this is an organization for females" would somehow magically bringing motivation to those people.

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09-09-2014, 12:03 PM
RE: Anti-Feminism is poisoning atheism
(09-09-2014 08:59 AM)Hobbitgirl Wrote:  
(09-09-2014 08:53 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  If that is what you think about the situation then obviously you have no understanding of the actual issue and are in fact part of the problem.

While I don't care about women in video games (In fact I find most of the costumes quite amusing...have you seen Ivy? I mean seriously LOL) I certainly understand the complaints that some women have. Not because the women in the games are prettier than me (I am no video game girl) but because feminists are right about some of the things they say.

Also seeing how most pretty girls look that way because they are constantly moving and working out as well. Only objection I see is the fact they are not dirtier in some games.

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