Anti-Feminism is poisoning atheism
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09-09-2014, 01:23 PM
RE: Anti-Feminism is poisoning atheism
(09-09-2014 01:21 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(09-09-2014 01:02 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  There seems to be a visceral almost knee jerk reaction by gamers whenever any criticism is given to that medium that against any other medium would be par for the course, to deny that not only is there a problem but there could never be a problem.
In case you were referring to me with that, I'm a bit short on patience right now due to health issues that are causing me 24/7 pain. It has put me on edge; please keep that in mind. You've known me long enough to know that I normally never lose my temper. Tongue

(09-09-2014 01:02 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  I am not claiming that videogames are the only source of these issues or sentiments but they sure as hell help to perpetuate the idea.
I can agree with that, albeit I don't think it's a bad thing. That's a discussion for a different thread, though.

Oh it is far from just you, and yes I am aware of your current situation which is why I am trying to explain myself. There really is an almost clannish reaction from gamers to form ranks whenever any criticism comes down the pike.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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09-09-2014, 01:36 PM
RE: Anti-Feminism is poisoning atheism
My 2 cents on the role of video games is it's part of a larger picture. By itself, it probably wouldn't be a huge issue. In fact, if it was by itself, it would probably seem all the sillier. Seriously, what female soldier outside video games does battle in skimpy attire? The reason it doesn't seem completely silly in a video game is because we are used to seeing women in skimpy attire all over the place as part of the way society in general frequently portrays women. The fact that women are portrayed this way in the video games is a symptom of the larger problem. The fact that it isn't so silly that the franchise throws out the idea and makes the programmers portray women more accurately in these games is another symptom. And, the more women are seen this way in more places, the more "normal" it seems and so it works against reversing the objectification. Video games are just one place among many that need to be addressed.

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09-09-2014, 02:04 PM
RE: Anti-Feminism is poisoning atheism
(09-09-2014 12:55 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(09-09-2014 12:49 PM)Kaepora Gaebora Wrote:  Are you saying here that women are end game sexual prizes? I disagree mainly because games mostly don't explicitly (or even implicitly) have sex as the end goal. Like rescuing the princess in Mario, I don't think there was any intention of the player having sex with Peach, nor would I think Nintendo is implying it as they are a family company. In Mario Bros games, the princess being captured trope is employed as an emotional motivation to get through the game. Even then, I'm doubtful that's always on people's minds as they play the game as beating the challenge is more of the main focus of the game.

That being said, I do understand that there IS sex as the main (and sometimes only) goal in a game. There are some date sims and RPGs where sex is sometimes the end goal. Though many popular games in the past have had it where you could be a man or you could be a woman and partner up with man/woman/alien/robots and have sex. The Mass Effect series and Star Wars KOTOR series is brought to mind. And there are games where you can only be a man and there are sex side quests, like the infamous sex scenes in God of War.

My point being is that I don't see that there is something wrong with virtual men as the main playable character in video games being able to have consensual sex with virtual women. Does it sometimes paint an inaccurate depiction of how the real world works? Yes. Can it potentially give a wrong impression of how reality works? If someone confuses video games, a tool of escapism, for reality, sure. That is a big 'if' though. It's the sort of thing that critics like Jack Thompson has banked on as being true. I would think changing people's minds through sexual education instead of changing video games would be more productive.

cjlr's post above yours does a wonderful breakdown of most of the questions here.

I saw that, but I did not see anything that really that goes around that 'if'. IF someone confuses video games for reality.

You could say kids are the one at risk here, though parents are responsible for giving them that content usually. In any case, I think sexual and social education would be more beneficial than restricting what video games show.
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09-09-2014, 02:11 PM
RE: Anti-Feminism is poisoning atheism
(09-09-2014 02:04 PM)Kaepora Gaebora Wrote:  
(09-09-2014 12:55 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  cjlr's post above yours does a wonderful breakdown of most of the questions here.

I saw that, but I did not see anything that really that goes around that 'if'. IF someone confuses video games for reality.

Being subtly influenced is not the same as going into full scale inability to separate fantasy from reality. The latter is almost certainly a mental health issue that far overshadows any influences any fiction has. The former however is a conversation worth having. It is not limited to video games but is a wider cultural issue.

(09-09-2014 02:04 PM)Kaepora Gaebora Wrote:  You could say kids are the one at risk here, though parents are responsible for giving them that content usually. In any case, I think sexual and social education would be more beneficial than restricting what video games show.


I think everyone would agree with more parental intervention and better education would profoundly improve all situations.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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09-09-2014, 05:58 PM
RE: Anti-Feminism is poisoning atheism
(09-09-2014 12:12 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(09-09-2014 11:31 AM)Chas Wrote:  Well said, however ...

To the matter of video games: who do you think authors these games for what audience? Consider

Bingo! Primarily young men. So, yes, they largely exhibit the attitudes of that demographic.

I agree however we may have a chicken or the egg situation here. I don't mean to imply that video games created this issue but they have helped to perpetuate it. Women as property is an old old custom and a woman as a prize is ingrained deep in our culture. However by perpetuating this they do a disservice to not only women but the boys who play theses games.

Video games may well be a powerful reinforcer, but before there were video games there were sports teams, locker rooms, poker games, stag parties, ...

Lots of objectification goes on in those venues. Whether it is innocent or good-natured, guys reinforce each other's views.

On the plus side, we also limt each other - there are places one doesn't let that talk go. No

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09-09-2014, 06:01 PM
RE: Anti-Feminism is poisoning atheism
(09-09-2014 01:04 PM)cjlr Wrote:  If not, on some level, from the attitudes of the creators and intended audience - where do the ideas come from? Why are they there?

From thinking with the little head instead of the big one. Yes

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09-09-2014, 06:56 PM
RE: Anti-Feminism is poisoning atheism
(09-09-2014 02:11 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(09-09-2014 02:04 PM)Kaepora Gaebora Wrote:  I saw that, but I did not see anything that really that goes around that 'if'. IF someone confuses video games for reality.

Being subtly influenced is not the same as going into full scale inability to separate fantasy from reality. The latter is almost certainly a mental health issue that far overshadows any influences any fiction has. The former however is a conversation worth having. It is not limited to video games but is a wider cultural issue.

Though, in order to be influenced on screen to such extremes as putting up hostile "friendzones" when a girl rejects her, wouldn't that person already have moral standards that are equivalent or lesser to what's happening on screen? That they don't have moral objections to what's being shown?

And in any case, it seems to me to be a stretch that one game allows you to date or have sex with a virtual woman as an in game choice to translate to entitled-assholism.

(09-09-2014 02:11 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(09-09-2014 02:04 PM)Kaepora Gaebora Wrote:  You could say kids are the one at risk here, though parents are responsible for giving them that content usually. In any case, I think sexual and social education would be more beneficial than restricting what video games show.


I think everyone would agree with more parental intervention and better education would profoundly improve all situations.

Thank you for agreeing with that. Smile
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09-09-2014, 07:01 PM
RE: Anti-Feminism is poisoning atheism
(09-09-2014 06:56 PM)Kaepora Gaebora Wrote:  
(09-09-2014 02:11 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Being subtly influenced is not the same as going into full scale inability to separate fantasy from reality. The latter is almost certainly a mental health issue that far overshadows any influences any fiction has. The former however is a conversation worth having. It is not limited to video games but is a wider cultural issue.

Though, in order to be influenced on screen to such extremes as putting up hostile "friendzones" when a girl rejects her, wouldn't that person already have moral standards that are equivalent or lesser to what's happening on screen? That they don't have moral objections to what's being shown?

And in any case, it seems to me to be a stretch that one game allows you to date or have sex with a virtual woman as an in game choice to translate to entitled-assholism.

(09-09-2014 02:11 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  I think everyone would agree with more parental intervention and better education would profoundly improve all situations.

Thank you for agreeing with that. Smile

It is more about reinforcing the idea that women are trophies. It is by no means relegated just to video games, I'm sure if you thought about it you could come up with a dozen examples easily.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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09-09-2014, 07:04 PM
RE: Anti-Feminism is poisoning atheism
Here's some good news - for the first time in nearly forever Barbie is no longer the number one toy. Legos are.

Unrealistic portrayals of woman are losing ground. YAY progress.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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09-09-2014, 07:28 PM
RE: Anti-Feminism is poisoning atheism
I was thinking of other examples of the way females are portrayed in media and old cartoons came to mind.

Off the top of my head there's Bluto dragging off a screaming Olive Oyl while Popeye tries to save her from almost certain rape.

Then there's Pepe' LePew forcing himself on a very unwilling female cat with no regards to her feelings. I think I remember him even drugging her at some point and trying to kidnap her.

Side note: I wonder if a Barbie hurts as much as a lego when you step on it barefooted. Consider
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