Anti-Vacc Help.
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24-11-2013, 01:22 PM
RE: Anti-Vacc Help.
Chas

If their good lord and savior made those diseases we shouldnt hide from them....right?

"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use." Soren Kierkegaard
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25-11-2013, 07:33 AM
RE: Anti-Vacc Help.
I've always lamented the fact that humans have all but halted natural selection evolution.
"Maybe" we should let stupid people remove their genes.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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25-11-2013, 07:51 AM
RE: Anti-Vacc Help.
My second child is just about to enter school, so I'm up to date with their vaccination policy. Basically:
1. The school must know the vaccination status of children.
2. Children are allowed to attend class as normal, but
3. If there is one whiff of a serious vaccine-preventable disease anywhere in or around the school all unvaccinated kids are ineligible to attend school for a few weeks.
... which seems fair and sensible.

(24-11-2013 01:22 PM)Hobbitgirl Wrote:  If their good lord and savior made those diseases we shouldnt hide from them....right?

God made dirt, so dirt don't hurt.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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25-11-2013, 08:29 AM
RE: Anti-Vacc Help.
I'm not anti-vaccine, especially for big stuff like freaking polio, but I've never gotten a flu vaccine. I don't think it's that big of a deal.
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25-11-2013, 09:38 AM (This post was last modified: 25-11-2013 09:43 AM by Free Thought.)
RE: Anti-Vacc Help.
(24-11-2013 11:30 AM)Hobbitgirl Wrote:  I have a challenge for you guys.

I am talking to an anti-vaccer and I need a bit of help

Okay, let's do this.

Quote:Anti-V: "Vaccines are making the population sterile, and changing our dna causing all kinds of complications with the future generations."

Contrary to some conspiracy theorist's peddled piffle, there are no vaccines in use or known to have been developed which render populations sterile. Some experimental HIV vaccines have had a few instances reported, but that's still shaky, uncertain ground for vaccine development. The problem with your "vaccs are rendering the population sterile" is that it is infeasible; in order to do that, you'd have to vaccinate every person and somehow cover-up the massively increased impotence rates, not to mention that if it was successful, it would be essentially dooming that population to death; an absurd goal. Not to mention the biological problems involved and the fact that people would notice rapidly.

As for the "Changing our DNA" claim, also wrong, to an extent. Vaccinations expose the immune system to alien (external) and most often dead bacteria and viruses; this allows the immune system to trial-and-error antibodies to respond to the new 'threat' with significantly decreased risk to the inoculated individual. This does cause some change regarding DNA: the genes which lead to the successful antibodies (which are able to bind to and neutralise the threats) are perpetuated, and the failed antibodies (which can't) are denatured and no longer produced in response to the particular threat.
It is important to note that these changes are not germline, meaning they are not passed down to off spring; the changes brought by vaccination cannot affect any other individuals.


Quote:Anti-V: "Only time I've had the flu was when I was vaccinated for it lol. How's that work?"

You didn't. In the presence of certain stimuli, the body has set reactions; it detected a foreign presence in the body and activated the reactions (symptoms), such as raising core body temperature (fever). What you experienced was your body going slightly overboard and mistaking the dead or weak virus for a full-blown threat and creating the symptoms. This is a very well known, and normal phenomenon.

Quote:Anti-V: "You should listen to some of the top eugenics like bill Gates and see how you feel about them. Provide the research for yourself, I can post a link that says anything I want."

I don't think you know what eugenics or who Bill Gates is. Also, are you aware of confirmation bias?

Quote:Anti-V "The cdc lol. Like I said, you can find all kinds of miss information out there."

The CDC, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is a US federal agency and is attached to the Department of Health and Human Services. It is comprised experts in all manner of scientific fields from statisticians and epidemiologists and behavioural scientists to virologists, chemists, physicians, and even veterinarians all of which study viral strains, bacteria and all manner of disease in order to combat them. The likelihood that they are proliferating misinformation is very low. Aside from their attempts at Zombie denialism, that is.


Quote:Anti-V: http://www.wellsphere.com/lyme-disease-a...ics/820978

The writer of this sources seems to have no credentials, or even a background, in biology, and frequently takes her article to conspiracy theory proportions (even literally stating that there is a global conspiracy near the end). Now, I'm not saying you need to have spent years studying and have a degree to discuss a topic, but if you want to be taken seriously, and be a viable source, it helps.

The article does have one interesting point, however; in the first paragraph, the writer claims that Japanese scientists found that bacteria can exchange DNA. This is true, it's called 'Horizontal gene transfer', the transition of genes between distinct species. However, this mostly occurs between bacteria and cross-pollinating plants. The rest of it seems to be plagued with several mis-understanding on how DNA and RNA interact, what protein synthesis is and how it works, among other problems.

Quote:Anti-V: http://www.activistpost.com/2012/09/is-c...9.html?m=1

This link displays it's unreliability in the first few sentences; the most striking example is it's claim that the 1918-19 influenza pandemic, which killed anywhere from 3 to 5% of the worlds population (due to the massive scope of infections and area it's impossible to be absolutely sure on the death toll), was a fake. I wouldn't trust the writer to a keep a five cent coin, frankly. It's assertions of global conspiracy are unsupported and unsupportable, among most of it's other assertions.


The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
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25-11-2013, 02:45 PM
RE: Anti-Vacc Help.
If you need proof of the effectiveness of vaccines, simply look at the prevalence of polio before the vaccine was created, after it was put into use, and now. It was completely eradicated. We got rid of it with the help of widespread vaccines. Now it's returning.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/08/health...d=all&_r=0

I'm sure there are better/more reliable sources out there and I've heard of more cases than this, but I'm on my phone and limited as to what I can do at the moment.

If her getting the flu after a flu shot is all the evidence she needs that vaccines are teh ebil she needs to be reminded that your body's immune system creates symptoms, not the virus itself. The symptoms are your body's way of combating the illness and developing antibodies for future use. That's how it works. If you don't get any symptoms, you're not getting protection from the virus. Not getting a flu shot isn't a big deal for most people with healthy immune systems, though. Not getting your kids vaccinated against horrible, incurable diseases like polio is altogether different. It endangers them and everyone else's kids as well.

Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who has said it- not even if I have said it- unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. - Buddha
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