Anti-anti-GMO rant...
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19-02-2015, 05:21 PM
RE: Anti-anti-GMO rant...
(19-02-2015 05:11 PM)ResistenceXD0001 Wrote:  
(19-02-2015 05:03 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  I.. Wha... How do you think DNA works?
No, seriously; how do you think it works?

Now, I've just had me a public edumacation so I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that in terms of genetic engineering, the source of the DNA is pretty much irrelevant, because all DNA is fundamentally the same. What matters is the DNA sequence otherwise know as the gene, which produce particular proteins or enzymes which bring about desired effects in the target organism.

Do you see a fish humping a corn plant to make hybrid corn plants?...No... Because those 2 species are incompatible. Only with human intervention can DNA from incompatible species be mixed. FacepalmFacepalmFacepalmFacepalmFacepalm

Im sorry if i put uncomfortable images of Corn/fish sex into peoples minds... Confused

At the level of DNA, they are not incompatible. DNA is DNA.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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19-02-2015, 05:23 PM
RE: Anti-anti-GMO rant...
(19-02-2015 05:19 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(19-02-2015 05:00 PM)ResistenceXD0001 Wrote:  I'm not afraid of anything. I have the RIGHT to know what i'm eating. Whether or not GMOs are 100% safe, i want to know where they are in my food. Is that a bad thing?... For me wanting to know?... Im not for or against GMOs. I just want transparency, and i begin to distrust those who hide information from me.

Everything you eat has been genetically modified. There is no difference between direct direct gene manipulation and indirect gene manipulation.

I just don't know what to believe anymore. I hear propaganda from both sides, both with strong arguments, both with holes in their stories.

And i dont care if they are the same. I as a consumer have the right to know whats what. I have the right to make informed decisions.
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19-02-2015, 05:28 PM
RE: Anti-anti-GMO rant...
(19-02-2015 05:23 PM)ResistenceXD0001 Wrote:  
(19-02-2015 05:19 PM)Chas Wrote:  Everything you eat has been genetically modified. There is no difference between direct direct gene manipulation and indirect gene manipulation.

I just don't know what to believe anymore. I hear propaganda from both sides, both with strong arguments, both with holes in their stories.

And i dont care if they are the same. I as a consumer have the right to know whats what. I have the right to make informed decisions.

Then you will need to become informed. Start with understanding something about genetics.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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19-02-2015, 05:33 PM
RE: Anti-anti-GMO rant...
(19-02-2015 05:28 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(19-02-2015 05:23 PM)ResistenceXD0001 Wrote:  I just don't know what to believe anymore. I hear propaganda from both sides, both with strong arguments, both with holes in their stories.

And i dont care if they are the same. I as a consumer have the right to know whats what. I have the right to make informed decisions.

Then you will need to become informed. Start with understanding something about genetics.

I'm an engineering student whom failed biology. Care to give me a starting source?.... perhaps something simple?... I want to start studying.
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19-02-2015, 05:41 PM
RE: Anti-anti-GMO rant...
(19-02-2015 05:33 PM)ResistenceXD0001 Wrote:  
(19-02-2015 05:28 PM)Chas Wrote:  Then you will need to become informed. Start with understanding something about genetics.

I'm an engineering student whom failed biology. Care to give me a starting source?.... perhaps something simple?... I want to start studying.

Universities generally maintain course webpages and many of those are publicly accessible. I often find that a useful page to start when I want to take a serious look at a new topic; consider the recommended texts for first-year biology students. Those kinds of introductory courses are usually good for a comprehensive overview. If you still can't quite follow, there are often "biology for arts" type courses as well, which would assume less scientific background.

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19-02-2015, 05:44 PM
RE: Anti-anti-GMO rant...
(19-02-2015 05:33 PM)ResistenceXD0001 Wrote:  
(19-02-2015 05:28 PM)Chas Wrote:  Then you will need to become informed. Start with understanding something about genetics.

I'm an engineering student whom failed biology. Care to give me a starting source?.... perhaps something simple?... I want to start studying.

The basics aren't terribly complicated. A good place to start is Wikipedia's Intro to Genetics, followed by Wikipedia's main article on Genetics.

Also Khan Academy is well regarded.

There are many references in those to follow.

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19-02-2015, 05:48 PM (This post was last modified: 19-02-2015 05:55 PM by cjlr.)
RE: Anti-anti-GMO rant...
(19-02-2015 05:19 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(19-02-2015 05:00 PM)ResistenceXD0001 Wrote:  I'm not afraid of anything. I have the RIGHT to know what i'm eating. Whether or not GMOs are 100% safe, i want to know where they are in my food. Is that a bad thing?... For me wanting to know?... Im not for or against GMOs. I just want transparency, and i begin to distrust those who hide information from me.

Everything you eat has been genetically modified. There is no difference between direct direct gene manipulation and indirect gene manipulation.

Indeed; genetic development has long since moved on from relying purely on selective breeding based on strictly phenotypic expression...

That's part of the reason why it's important to define the terms. What is "genetic engineering"? Most of the fearmongering relates to transgenic modifications, but from a functional point of view that's entirely indistinguishable from the ongoing natural horizontal gene transfer found in just all all life on Earth. And as you say, if at the end of the day gene sequence A has become gene sequence B, it's again indistinguishable regardless of whether that occurred through natural gene transfer, spontaneous mutation, deliberate human transgenic modification, or deliberate induced mutation.

EDIT: I can accept the arguments in favour of good regulation of new agricultural strains, but that has nothing to do with how those strains are created - tying them together is just so much vapid fearmongering conflation. What a genome contains matters; how it got that way is utterly irrelevant from the point of view of me actually eating it. It's as stupid as worrying about the provenance of the individual molecules you're taking in. Why, that oxygen molecule that just passed into your lungs might once have been breathed by Hitler!!!1111one!11

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19-02-2015, 05:53 PM
RE: Anti-anti-GMO rant...
(19-02-2015 05:44 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(19-02-2015 05:33 PM)ResistenceXD0001 Wrote:  I'm an engineering student whom failed biology. Care to give me a starting source?.... perhaps something simple?... I want to start studying.

The basics aren't terribly complicated. A good place to start is Wikipedia's Intro to Genetics, followed by Wikipedia's main article on Genetics.

Also Khan Academy is well regarded.

There are many references in those to follow.

The information within a particular gene is not always exactly the same between one organism and another, so different copies of a gene do not always give exactly the same instructions. <<< Direct copy/paste from the basics you gave me. (So yeah, DNA from a fish IS different from that of corn.)

Thank you. you were helpful. I now am Anti-GMO, and will be continuing research into genetics, so that i can understand more about how GMOs are produced.
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19-02-2015, 06:00 PM
RE: Anti-anti-GMO rant...
(19-02-2015 05:53 PM)ResistenceXD0001 Wrote:  
(19-02-2015 05:44 PM)Chas Wrote:  The basics aren't terribly complicated. A good place to start is Wikipedia's Intro to Genetics, followed by Wikipedia's main article on Genetics.

Also Khan Academy is well regarded.

There are many references in those to follow.

The information within a particular gene is not always exactly the same between one organism and another, so different copies of a gene do not always give exactly the same instructions. <<< Direct copy/paste from the basics you gave me. (So yeah, DNA from a fish IS different from that of corn.)

Wait, what?

No... No, that isn't what that means.

Different copies of a gene exhibit genotypic variation, which is (sometimes) then reflected in phenotype. This is as true between individuals as it is between species.

If the exact same sequence of nucleotides is present in different individuals, it will code for the exact same sequence of amino acids and it will lead to exactly the same outputs.
(there is also a thing called epigenetics, referring to the combination of processes influencing which genes act under which circumstances, but that seems beyond the immediate scope of your apparent misunderstanding)

(19-02-2015 05:53 PM)ResistenceXD0001 Wrote:  Thank you. you were helpful. I now am Anti-GMO, and will be continuing research into genetics, so that i can understand more about how GMOs are produced.

It took you only a couple minutes to decide that?

You know, from here it looks almost as though you really want a certain conclusion to be true...

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19-02-2015, 06:01 PM
RE: Anti-anti-GMO rant...
(19-02-2015 05:53 PM)ResistenceXD0001 Wrote:  
(19-02-2015 05:44 PM)Chas Wrote:  The basics aren't terribly complicated. A good place to start is Wikipedia's Intro to Genetics, followed by Wikipedia's main article on Genetics.

Also Khan Academy is well regarded.

There are many references in those to follow.

The information within a particular gene is not always exactly the same between one organism and another, so different copies of a gene do not always give exactly the same instructions. <<< Direct copy/paste from the basics you gave me. (So yeah, DNA from a fish IS different from that of corn.)

I don't think you fully understand that sentence - keep reading.

Quote:Thank you. you were helpful. I now am Anti-GMO, and will be continuing research into genetics, so that i can understand more about how GMOs are produced.

First understand what they are. How they are produced is not the same issue.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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