Anti-anti-GMO rant...
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19-02-2015, 06:28 PM
RE: Anti-anti-GMO rant...
(19-02-2015 05:11 PM)ResistenceXD0001 Wrote:  
(19-02-2015 05:03 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  I.. Wha... How do you think DNA works?
No, seriously; how do you think it works?

Now, I've just had me a public edumacation so I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that in terms of genetic engineering, the source of the DNA is pretty much irrelevant, because all DNA is fundamentally the same. What matters is the DNA sequence otherwise know as the gene, which produce particular proteins or enzymes which bring about desired effects in the target organism.

Do you see a fish humping a corn plant to make hybrid corn plants?...No... Because those 2 species are incompatible. Only with human intervention can DNA from incompatible species be mixed. FacepalmFacepalmFacepalmFacepalmFacepalm

Im sorry if i put uncomfortable images of Corn/fish sex into peoples minds... Confused

[Image: 242.gif]

As previously noted, on a DNA level, the 'fish' and the corn are only different by the sequence of their DNA: the DNA of all organisms found on Earth is fundamentally the same, meaning it is comprised universally of the same components; the same sugar and phosphate back-bone and the same nitrogen bases.

This universality is what allows genetic engineering to work, and it is also what allows the occurrence of Horizontal Gene Transfer. HGT is a natural process by which genes are able to flow between species which do not sexually reproduce. The existence of HGT contradicts your premise, sir.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
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19-02-2015, 06:41 PM (This post was last modified: 19-02-2015 07:53 PM by TheGulegon.)
RE: Anti-anti-GMO rant...
Are any of the links from previous posts about the effects of GMO's on anything other than humans who consume them?
Specifically:
Is there any truth to the concept that planting GMO's in a field "used to" it's own indigenous plants requires more pesticides to make as viable a yield? I mean the tap where I live is bad, but I can still drink it... didn't touch any of the water when I went to Mexico, though! Confused So it sounds possible.

I ask because, if a gigantic industrial farm utterly destroys the environment it inhabits, I'd say tear it down even though the beef coming out of it is perfectly fine & cheaper than the meat from a free range ranch. I'll pay a little extra for a cleaner grassland where that gigantic puddle of cow poop once was... just like I'll pay a little extra for some corn from a specific location if it requires less poison being pumped into the dirt to keep it alive & safe from local pests/microorganisms/etc..

GMO's might not harm me when I injest them, but I don't want a Dust Bowl 2: The Airborne Topsoil Returns (that was caused by overcultivation, but it's prolly not the only bad thing that can happen to soil on a grand scale & you know what I was getting at anyway) !

Not for or against; just want every conceivable scientific study possible conducted to make sure when I tell a farmer that GMO's are o.k. for people to eat, I'm not leaving out how the amount of pesticide you'll need for 'em might cause your ground water to turn the color of petroleum! Tongue

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19-02-2015, 08:17 PM
RE: Anti-anti-GMO rant...
GMOs are labeled as some giant conspiracy, nevermind the patenting issues that come with it.

However, when it comes down to it: what does GMO mean? What does it specify? How does it harm

If it's labelling any sort of modification of organisms that is harmful somehow, they would need proof of some underlying causation of harm. Anti-GMO peeps don't have any evidence for a flaw in just modifying genetic code as problem. So that's out the window.

If there is SOMETHING wrong with a genetically modified organism, it would be nice to have that rectified instead of completely trashing bioengineering and throwing away hard work biologists do to ensure a safer, cheaper, and more well fed population.
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19-02-2015, 09:08 PM (This post was last modified: 19-02-2015 09:11 PM by WhiskeyDebates.)
RE: Anti-anti-GMO rant...
4:23 PM
(19-02-2015 05:23 PM)ResistenceXD0001 Wrote:  I just don't know what to believe anymore. I hear propaganda from both sides, both with strong arguments, both with holes in their stories.

And i dont care if they are the same. I as a consumer have the right to know whats what. I have the right to make informed decisions.

4:53 PM
(19-02-2015 05:53 PM)ResistenceXD0001 Wrote:  The information within a particular gene is not always exactly the same between one organism and another, so different copies of a gene do not always give exactly the same instructions. <<< Direct copy/paste from the basics you gave me. (So yeah, DNA from a fish IS different from that of corn.)

Thank you. you were helpful. I now am Anti-GMO, and will be continuing research into genetics, so that i can understand more about how GMOs are produced.

Woooooow. It's a good thing you took that whole 20 minutes to go from a failed biology student without a working knowledge of genetics to the point your so well educated on the subject you can make a "informed" decision on one of the most needlessly decisive subjects in the modern world despite your failure to understand that genes and DNA are not the same bloody thing and the words can't be used interchangeably whenever it suits you. Impressive.

Rolleyes

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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20-02-2015, 07:19 AM
RE: Anti-anti-GMO rant...
By pure coincidence, I stumbled upon this article this morning: Is Monsanto evil?

Some of this I knew. And, I have no idea who this guy is or what agenda he has. So, free free to validate any and all claims made in that link because I make no representations or warranties as to the veracity of any of it. But, I have read some of it before (like how this version of Monsanto didn't create Agent Orange and how they take in about the same revenue as Whole Foods).

As for GMOs, it's not a topic I know an incredible about amount. I asked bout it once before on this forum and got some good feedback. I know a whole lot of people who think they are evil incarnate. I've done a little reading on my own - nothing to qualify me as any kind of expert - and I generally reject the idea that they are the poisons the fringe groups make them out to be. I just don't see that there is any evidence to support it. I'm not a biologist, and I'm not really qualified to evaluate any evidence presented. But, I am a lawyer and I am very qualified to evaluate the strength of an argument. When one side relies on consistently produced peer reviewed research and the other side relies on "it just feel yucky" types or arguments without any fact based research to back it up, I feel that I can weigh those two positions and come to a reasonable conclusion as to which is bullshit and which is real.

That doesn't mean that the food industry is producing healthy foods. Everything is so pumped up with sugar and Americans at least are all so fat that something is going on. But, I think there are a whole lot of causes that contribute to that beyond just food, and I have not seen anyone tie it to GMOs.

As for labeling, I followed that debate with some interest. I'm pretty sure that the people pushing that were not about consumer choice. What they were about was bringing down a science because they are ignorant as to its safety and efficacy. It's great for rich, suburban Americans to lambast everyone who doesn't buy their food from Whole Foods, but the rest of the world has to eat too. You think we have issues with terrorism and violence now, wait until these assholes get their way and we start facing mass starvation because we can't grow enough food to feed everyone. Then you're really going to see some angry, violent people.

I see this whole thing as just more woo and nonsense. Unfortunately, the general public is so uninformed on these topics that they are easily swayed.

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20-02-2015, 09:38 AM
RE: Anti-anti-GMO rant...
(20-02-2015 07:19 AM)BnW Wrote:  By pure coincidence, I stumbled upon this article this morning: Is Monsanto evil?

Some of this I knew. And, I have no idea who this guy is or what agenda he has. So, free free to validate any and all claims made in that link because I make no representations or warranties as to the veracity of any of it. But, I have read some of it before (like how this version of Monsanto didn't create Agent Orange and how they take in about the same revenue as Whole Foods).

As for GMOs, it's not a topic I know an incredible about amount. I asked bout it once before on this forum and got some good feedback. I know a whole lot of people who think they are evil incarnate. I've done a little reading on my own - nothing to qualify me as any kind of expert - and I generally reject the idea that they are the poisons the fringe groups make them out to be. I just don't see that there is any evidence to support it. I'm not a biologist, and I'm not really qualified to evaluate any evidence presented. But, I am a lawyer and I am very qualified to evaluate the strength of an argument. When one side relies on consistently produced peer reviewed research and the other side relies on "it just feel yucky" types or arguments without any fact based research to back it up, I feel that I can weigh those two positions and come to a reasonable conclusion as to which is bullshit and which is real.

That doesn't mean that the food industry is producing healthy foods. Everything is so pumped up with sugar and Americans at least are all so fat that something is going on. But, I think there are a whole lot of causes that contribute to that beyond just food, and I have not seen anyone tie it to GMOs.

As for labeling, I followed that debate with some interest. I'm pretty sure that the people pushing that were not about consumer choice. What they were about was bringing down a science because they are ignorant as to its safety and efficacy. It's great for rich, suburban Americans to lambast everyone who doesn't buy their food from Whole Foods, but the rest of the world has to eat too. You think we have issues with terrorism and violence now, wait until these assholes get their way and we start facing mass starvation because we can't grow enough food to feed everyone. Then you're really going to see some angry, violent people.

I see this whole thing as just more woo and nonsense. Unfortunately, the general public is so uninformed on these topics that they are easily swayed.

See the video I posted earlier in the thread.

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid734163

It demonstrates how the studies cited by anit-GMO groups as proof of the danger of GMOs are actually about the dangers of pesticides. Pesticides sprayed on GMO crops GMOs are dangerous. It's no different than normal crops sprayed with pesticides. The chemical used is the dangerous part, not the genetics of the plant.
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