Anti-atheist Distrust and combating Religious Prejudice
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30-11-2011, 08:19 PM (This post was last modified: 30-11-2011 08:22 PM by Seasbury.)
RE: Anti-atheist Distrust and combating Religious Prejudice
(30-11-2011 08:06 PM)Kaos MD Wrote:  Sorry for your lose of $12 Sad. Either way, I think your observation really nails the problem on the head. I'm good friends with a theist, and he just can't wrap his mind around the idea of living without a god. Therefore, it makes it hard for him and other theists to understand atheists.

just partly joking - it was worth the purchase Smile

I really want to get ideas going toward combatting this mindset though. I'm good with being confrontational, but only in the context of respecting people. It's hard for people like us though to explain how we don't buy into theist delusions without belittling beliefs. I've had several conversations with Christians that have literally go down a strange rabbit hole in that they don't really know what the bible says, because they only read a passage here and there, they don't go to church regularly, but they just "feel" god and that means they're right. You can reason all day and all night and you'd have a better chance of having an intelligent conversation with a rock...
(30-11-2011 08:06 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  Sorry!

I hate not getting feedback or discussion, but I've gotten used to it. Both here and on richarddawkins.net I tend to kill off discussion, and very few people post after I do. (Is it my breath scaring them away? I'll bet it is.)

I haven't read your post yet, but I will. Starting a topic was a good way to draw some comments, though.

No worries Smile

My blogs are just long winded thoughts that would amount to a post here anyway - I do it for therapy, kinda of my Iron John way to stave off madness by blowing some steam in a, hopefully, constructive way. Hope you find it worth reading Smile

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30-11-2011, 08:42 PM
RE: Anti-atheist Distrust and combating Religious Prejudice
Sorry for posting in girlymans version of this thread (which came after yours) and not in yours... I must have missed yours somehow. Maybe it's your screen name. Maybe you need to make it bigger and flashier. Or red. I like red. Imagine a greaat big red glowing SEASBURY or THE GREAT SEASBURY something catchy. I could write you a jingle. Though I admit I lack even the most rudimentary ability as far as lyrical content is concerned. But I'm cheap.

As for the distrust I think it comes partially from the religious doctrine itself. It teaches them to distrust all others and place a higher value on those just like them as a tool for survival. It's understandable. Or used to be, but now it's so much a part of the whole picture as to be pretty well inseparable.

I say we call a meeting and invite all of the major theist heads with the promise of gift baskets... Then when we get them in the big room all together we lock the doors and open up the trap door in the floor, loosing the cloned velociraptors, and watch them try to ride them. Only to be ripped to shreds. They will come because no one can resist the allure of gift baskets.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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30-11-2011, 08:45 PM
RE: Anti-atheist Distrust and combating Religious Prejudice
(30-11-2011 08:19 PM)Seasbury Wrote:  I really want to get ideas going toward combatting this mindset though.

Don't think it's worth combatting and I'm not sure it can be. For me and my theist (of a variety of faiths) friends, relatives, and acquaintances, when it comes down to the brass tacks, it's a difference of opinion on the postmortem preservation of identity (to varying degrees depending on the faith). I don't see it as tenable and they pray that it is. Don't see much room for compromise there. They're gonna have to realize it for them themselves.

Here's what I think happens when I die (albeit on a much smaller, but no less significant, scale).




As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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01-12-2011, 02:32 AM
RE: Anti-atheist Distrust and combating Religious Prejudice
I think one thing we have to remember is that in general we tend to distrust those who are different from us. I know that I wouldn't trust someone with baggy jeans and a bandanna. I would assume he thinks he is some sort punk ass.

Homosexuality has for the most part avoided with the ''born with it'' campaigning ( as in it's not a choice) so people have learned to deal with it.

But just from personal experience I know that (I wouldn't call it distrust but more placing myself above) those who don't follow a certain set of regulations.
for example the big requirements are: knowledge of history, knowledge of geography , good music taste (I stop at classic rock), if you act like a rapper,also a working idea of world events. also no vegans

the middle ones are: a intelligent denomination of religion (Anglican, catholic, Presbyterian, no baptists), high vernacular, knowledge of hard sciences, no vegetarians.

and least ones are: Nationality (highest being Canadian, then British empire, European, everywhere else, American) sexuality, dislike of bacon.

part of it is that its what I`m used to and i see others as threatening the constancy of my way of life. also I hate people who can`t follow a significant conversation.

P.S. Atheism tends to rank fairly high as almost every person I have met who happens to be atheist is at the lower end of intelligence and inversely those who I consider to be the smartest happen to be the deepest in faith.

p.s.s. despite the fact I`m English of background it is also my worst subject so go easy on me

I'm homophobic in the same way that I'm arachnophobic. I'm not scared of gay people but I'm going to scream if I find one in my bath.

I'm. Also homophobic in the same way I'm arachnophobic. I'm scared of spiders but I'd still fuck'em.
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01-12-2011, 05:21 AM (This post was last modified: 01-12-2011 05:23 AM by houseofcantor.)
RE: Anti-atheist Distrust and combating Religious Prejudice
(27-11-2011 11:57 AM)Seasbury Wrote:  I spent a decent chunk of my weekend, when not eating turkey, visiting with family, or watching Syracuse lose yet another football game crafting this article and, if you take the time to read it, I'd really like your thoughts with regard to how such a diverse group as atheists can check this prejudice -- thanks in advance for reading and look forward to whatever discussion may ensue Smile

You're incorrect. And they are incorrect. And now if I were Sascha, I'd find how much resource, time and effort was wasted in drawing these incorrect conclusions. Big Grin

That's the problem with academia. I am mighty glad I failed to achieve my degree; besides, I already had certification. Unspecified Psychosis... a UP in naive philosophy, that's the thing!

No. Back it up. These methods are textbook. Saturation, exposure, Q & A... over time, erosion occurs. We just don't have the time. In case you missed it, the times, they are a tribulatin'. The next round of economic shenanigans is scheduled for 2013. A coupla bubbles floating around. The college tuition bubble, for one; us, for another. That's US; the bubble bubble. Once the sheep finally look up, those charts are gonna reverse, and atheism is gonna take a nap for another century.

That would be the good news. The bad news, is these "textbook strategies" causing alienation during time of increasing uncertainty. It won't be just Newt; it will be a full blown witch hunt, burning and all.

...and that Girly, duplicating the topic. Thought I wuz "presenting symptomology" there for a minute. But I answered Girly's with a coupla lines, and musta carried the contention forward; because on the local atheist page, I made rant. Now I'm gonna make copypasta...


(A guy was writing a "letter to believers why the hell he was an atheist." Which made the stupid brain retort - why the hell isn't everybody an atheist?)

Let's start with YHWH; which is the fourth identity. That's half the story... now some wiki: The term atheism originated from the Greek ἄθεος (atheos), meaning "without god", which was applied with a negative connotation to those thought to reject the gods worshipped by the larger society. ~from atheism

Add Job 38, blend until consistent; chill, and serve.

I don't have "lack of belief," I have faith. Faith is defined as sincerity; to "have faith" is to invest identity. For instance, I have faith that John exists - but I will not verify that existence until Saturday.

This is not equivocation, this is not semantics; and there is zero woo in my stew. This was the third "atheist place" I went to with the statement, "Hi! I'm a prophet of god. I heard this was a non-prophet org, that true?" Three times ignored, fourth time... is what?

Emergence. If you don't know that word, look it up; study it, make it your friend. That one word (and the science behind it, of course) kill creationism dead beyond the the ability of YHWH to resurrect, how's that? Wink

Wanna argument for believers to see the atheist perspective? Look at the original Greek. Distills to rejection of popular gods. Now then, Bible is what? Collected works of the prophets - atheists, all. Moses (or the meme) is most likely Canaanite; from when Canaan looked to Egypt. Moses rejected Canaan, the over-lordship of Egypt, and the Egyptian pantheon. YHWH is incorporeal. Next up, Paul; the Roman Jew, encoding evangelical Judaism in a single prayer. That's what Jesus is - conceptual engineering. I don't accept historicity; it diminishes the vision of Paul, an atheist. Next up, Mohammed - probably my favorite out of the bunch - took the meme of Paul, the various books of scripture, sorted the contradictions, condensed it into a singular recital; and then used YHWH to advance his own aims. Big mojo atheist, Mohammed. Besides, Allah is way cooler than YHWH. Wink

Wanna argument for reason and logic? You're reading it, and science will verify it. I know something the Four Horsemen do not - a "lack of belief in god" is denial of theistic identity. That cannot continue. The sooner atheism realizes that YHWH is the fourth identity, the sooner atheism can become the final religion.

But there is widespread contention that "faith is belief without evidence" - wrong - "that YHWH does not exist" - wrong - and atheism can succeed as secular humanism. Wrong. This is exactly why there is discrimination against the atheist - there are memes in play - the atheist need only recognize the god in the theist, and we can make all of these gods GTFO. Wink

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02-12-2011, 12:26 AM
RE: Anti-atheist Distrust and combating Religious Prejudice
Well, at least this is getting some press---here's a story about it in CTV News (British Columbia) that I happened across by sheer chance:

CTV story

I think a lot of this goes back to stereotypes pushed by the churches about atheists; again, mainly that "atheism = no real morals or motivation to be good"... but off the cuff, I think it also ties into the whole slew of religious ideas about the "perfidy of man," "mortification of the flesh," "sinfulness of man," etc. going back to the idea of Original Sin being inherited. They put so much time and effort into the idea that "Man without God = error, sin, corruption, lawlessness, amorality," that tying atheism into that concept is, for them, a no-brainer. Literally.

I think a lot of the effort will be in dragging out the hind-brain that has absorbed these ideas/lessons, exposing the roots of it all, then showing how erroneous it is. The flip side of that (to be blunt, creating good PR by showing how atheists can be caring, community-minded individuals with a high moral/ethical code) can help also (and that's an approach we Pagans have taken as well, in an effort to counteract the hind-brain kneejerk reaction of "Satanist!" accusations).

However, I think it will likely take both the logical approach (showing the roots in their own system, as to where this erroneous perception comes from) along *with* the emotional approach (giving proof/examples of ethical/moral/humanitarian atheists), in order to begin changing this perception among Christians in general.

Thing is, don't expect them to change in a hurry. You're most likely to reach the ones who use some reason, and question, dig, and investigate their faith, long before you begin to reach those who insist dinosaurs and man co-existed, and that the Earth is only 6k-10k years old. Sigh.
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