Anti-freedom of speech protests in London
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10-02-2015, 11:08 AM
RE: Anti-freedom of speech protests in London
(10-02-2015 11:01 AM)Blackout Wrote:  But how do we know when a specific someone immigrates if they are going to conform to our society? And how do we know that they don't conform? For example, if you ban these Muslims in these protests, do you wish to ban their families, children, wives, etc, too?

Another question - If this was a demonstration made by native born Christian citizens, would you defend the same measure? If not, what would you defend doing?

I think they should be some sort of test that educates them on the values of said country to make them aware that their beliefs might be lampooned and ridiculed in said country during their time there.

I think the main issue is not that they are simply protesting a value of a country, but they are protesting free speech, using free speech, with threats, "you better be careful with Muhammad". Everybody knows what this means, and it's not a friendly heads up. It's quite paradoxical because each opposite appears contradictory to me.

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10-02-2015, 11:23 AM
RE: Anti-freedom of speech protests in London
If you propose this test, then it must be applied to everyone. In Europe, citizens have exactly the same rights as non-citizens. Equality under the law.

"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything" - Friedrich Nietzsche
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10-02-2015, 11:24 AM
RE: Anti-freedom of speech protests in London
(10-02-2015 10:51 AM)Chas Wrote:  ...
This is about immigrants publicly professing disagreement with the fundamentals of the society into which they chose to immigrate.

Dodgy

Are you talking about me?

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10-02-2015, 11:33 AM
RE: Anti-freedom of speech protests in London
(10-02-2015 11:23 AM)Blackout Wrote:  If you propose this test, then it must be applied to everyone. In Europe, citizens have exactly the same rights as non-citizens. Equality under the law.

I haven't proposed any test.

I have expressed the opinion that immigrants are not welcome when they protest the fundamentals of the society they chose to immigrate to. They are being irrational or subversive.

I'm sorry some of you find that objectionable. I think it is rational and justified.

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10-02-2015, 01:26 PM
RE: Anti-freedom of speech protests in London
I wasn't talking to you Chas, I was replying to SunnyD1's proposal. I can agree with you that we are better off without immigrants who don't fit in. But right now it's to late to deport them because we are not allowed. We need to find other measures.

"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything" - Friedrich Nietzsche
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10-02-2015, 01:45 PM
RE: Anti-freedom of speech protests in London
This isn't really directed at anyone who's posted in this thread.

I was reading that in France they have Muslim "ghettos" I've heard the same thing about middle eastern populations in the uk -- they choose to settle in the same area...As their populations grow the schools...mosque temples...stores...Seem to follow -- until they have their own community they feel refects best how they live. Much like orthodox Jewish communities they've got their clique going and outsiders aren't entirely welcome

Now I've read they do this to maintain their own sense of community. But it also seems to me to thwart becoming a part of the greater populations...You can't force integration.

But if they don't fully integrate...they never understand the values of place they live.

If there is a question in my ramble it might be should they be allowed or encouraged by circumstance to form their own communities or should they be forced to integrate?

Certainly keeping their numbers down to begin with is start....but for the ones that already there?


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10-02-2015, 03:09 PM
RE: Anti-freedom of speech protests in London
(10-02-2015 01:45 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  This isn't really directed at anyone who's posted in this thread.

I was reading that in France they have Muslim "ghettos" I've heard the same thing about middle eastern populations in the uk -- they choose to settle in the same area...As their populations grow the schools...mosque temples...stores...Seem to follow -- until they have their own community they feel refects best how they live. Much like orthodox Jewish communities they've got their clique going and outsiders aren't entirely welcome

Now I've read they do this to maintain their own sense of community. But it also seems to me to thwart becoming a part of the greater populations...You can't force integration.

But if they don't fully integrate...they never understand the values of place they live.

If there is a question in my ramble it might be should they be allowed or encouraged by circumstance to form their own communities or should they be forced to integrate?

Certainly keeping their numbers down to begin with is start....but for the ones that already there?

Well I can't speak for France but I grew up in a council estate in Yorkshire and there are certain council estates where immigrants get placed in BY the government (not by choice). It ended up with a mixture of poles, kosovans, Indians and Pakistanis (few iraqi's and kurds too but mainly Pakistanis when I was young). In turn the people who had grown up there ended up dispersing to the rest of the city.. now it's probably the second most dangerous area in Leeds. I think the government just place them into pens like cattle, throw them some benefits so they can get by and hope that they integrate.

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10-02-2015, 04:11 PM
RE: Anti-freedom of speech protests in London
(10-02-2015 03:09 PM)SunnyD1 Wrote:  
(10-02-2015 01:45 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  This isn't really directed at anyone who's posted in this thread.

I was reading that in France they have Muslim "ghettos" I've heard the same thing about middle eastern populations in the uk -- they choose to settle in the same area...As their populations grow the schools...mosque temples...stores...Seem to follow -- until they have their own community they feel refects best how they live. Much like orthodox Jewish communities they've got their clique going and outsiders aren't entirely welcome

Now I've read they do this to maintain their own sense of community. But it also seems to me to thwart becoming a part of the greater populations...You can't force integration.

But if they don't fully integrate...they never understand the values of place they live.

If there is a question in my ramble it might be should they be allowed or encouraged by circumstance to form their own communities or should they be forced to integrate?

Certainly keeping their numbers down to begin with is start....but for the ones that already there?

Well I can't speak for France but I grew up in a council estate in Yorkshire and there are certain council estates where immigrants get placed in BY the government (not by choice). It ended up with a mixture of poles, kosovans, Indians and Pakistanis (few iraqi's and kurds too but mainly Pakistanis when I was young). In turn the people who had grown up there ended up dispersing to the rest of the city.. now it's probably the second most dangerous area in Leeds. I think the government just place them into pens like cattle, throw them some benefits so they can get by and hope that they integrate.

Thanks.

That helps me to better understand. It seems kinda counterintuitive to just hope they integrate.


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10-02-2015, 04:45 PM
RE: Anti-freedom of speech protests in London
(10-02-2015 04:11 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(10-02-2015 03:09 PM)SunnyD1 Wrote:  Well I can't speak for France but I grew up in a council estate in Yorkshire and there are certain council estates where immigrants get placed in BY the government (not by choice). It ended up with a mixture of poles, kosovans, Indians and Pakistanis (few iraqi's and kurds too but mainly Pakistanis when I was young). In turn the people who had grown up there ended up dispersing to the rest of the city.. now it's probably the second most dangerous area in Leeds. I think the government just place them into pens like cattle, throw them some benefits so they can get by and hope that they integrate.

Thanks.

That helps me to better understand. It seems kinda counterintuitive to just hope they integrate.

Yeah it does. I think there is a shift now though, people are calling it "white guilt" but really it's politicians and privileged middle-class and upper-class students trying to compensate by favouring minorities over everybody else. Some minorities more than others.

For example the Jews are still the worst treated group in Europe. France is absolutely horrific for Jews right now. Jew attacks halal store, it is religion and a targeted incident. Muslim attacks kosher store, it is a random attack with no rational, not related to religion in any way.

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10-02-2015, 05:19 PM
RE: Anti-freedom of speech protests in London
Lets say your an atheist. You might not see much importance in this label, it may not effect yoir life in anyway day to day, but if asked if you believe in god your answer would be "no".

Now lets presume that in some other country atheists are killing others in the most horrific way and justifying religion as the caus. That they want people to live their lifes without some invisible sky daddy laying down the rules.

As an atheist you would probably agree that you dont want to live by religious rules as its all bullshit, however you do not agree with the methods they use of killing others in a horrific fashion.

The world wages war against these atheists. Populations start to mock your lack of belief and violent incidents against atheists rise. You see there is to be a day where people are invited to openly send in art to mock atheism.

So for your own sake you go to the biggest gang you know of "the government" and you seek their protection. Many atheists get together and lobby the government, as is their right, for protection.

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