Anti-vaccination
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09-01-2014, 09:04 PM
RE: Anti-vaccination
I've always thought of it in terms of odds, if there is a 1:10,000 chance of autism. (lets pretend there is a connection) compared to the chance that your child will one of the 13 illness, many of which can cause death. I think it was good odds.
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13-01-2014, 03:28 PM
RE: Anti-vaccination
I just had this conversation on Facebook with a cousin of mine who unfortunately is a bit of a wack-job. Our conversation went like this:

Me: Unfortunately, we, in our generation, have been spoiled in that we haven't had to deal with most of the really horrific diseases that vaccines protect against in several generations. So, we have a false sense of security that those diseases no longer exist, or that we are no longer susceptible, or that even if we are susceptible, it won't happen to "our" children. Problem is, they're still out there, they can come back, and our children are not naturally immune.

Her: Nor are they immune to the horrors that a vaccinated society has caused.

Me: Like....?

Her: I think that direct connection is a lot of hype but seriously, it has left us very complacent while also paranoied. The former leads to sloth and ignorance, which combined with the paranoia, creates hysteria and hysterical behavior. Alergies are spiking due to other factors, which have stemmed from the "health" "education" (read "Chemical/Pharmaceutical Prpaganda) false information and partial truths.

Me (thinking in my head "what the heck is she talking about? Do I really want to continue this conversation?" But, I did, unfortunately): If you can cite actual, credible, peer-reviewed scientific evidence for the horrors that vaccines have caused, I'll be happy to look at it.

Her: I will ask my doc for my medical record this afternoon. In the mean time, check your local phone directory for psychologists, psychitrists, weight loss companies, medics in general. The large number of them existing is irrefutable. I was serious when I said that all the popular stuff about there being a direct connection is just a bunch of hype. On the other hand, vaccines is just another drop in the bucket of dependence.

Me (sigh): If the evidence is so irrefutable, please present links to it here. Thank You.

Her: Links to what?

Me: Yeah. I'm out. Thanks Anyway.


It's just disheartening when it's someone in your own family.

AJ
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13-01-2014, 03:40 PM
RE: Anti-vaccination
(13-01-2014 03:28 PM)AJRyan6of7 Wrote:  I just had this conversation on Facebook with a cousin of mine who unfortunately is a bit of a wack-job. Our conversation went like this:

Me: Unfortunately, we, in our generation, have been spoiled in that we haven't had to deal with most of the really horrific diseases that vaccines protect against in several generations. So, we have a false sense of security that those diseases no longer exist, or that we are no longer susceptible, or that even if we are susceptible, it won't happen to "our" children. Problem is, they're still out there, they can come back, and our children are not naturally immune.

Her: Nor are they immune to the horrors that a vaccinated society has caused.

Me: Like....?

Her: I think that direct connection is a lot of hype but seriously, it has left us very complacent while also paranoied. The former leads to sloth and ignorance, which combined with the paranoia, creates hysteria and hysterical behavior. Alergies are spiking due to other factors, which have stemmed from the "health" "education" (read "Chemical/Pharmaceutical Prpaganda) false information and partial truths.

Me (thinking in my head "what the heck is she talking about? Do I really want to continue this conversation?" But, I did, unfortunately): If you can cite actual, credible, peer-reviewed scientific evidence for the horrors that vaccines have caused, I'll be happy to look at it.

Her: I will ask my doc for my medical record this afternoon. In the mean time, check your local phone directory for psychologists, psychitrists, weight loss companies, medics in general. The large number of them existing is irrefutable. I was serious when I said that all the popular stuff about there being a direct connection is just a bunch of hype. On the other hand, vaccines is just another drop in the bucket of dependence.

Me (sigh): If the evidence is so irrefutable, please present links to it here. Thank You.

Her: Links to what?

Me: Yeah. I'm out. Thanks Anyway.


It's just disheartening when it's someone in your own family.

AJ

I know what you mean. My cousin has two boys, 4 and 3. They haven't been vaccinated at all. I'm pretty worried about them to be honest.

However she's not such a nutjob. She's just a bit gullible, one of the "it's on the internet, so it's true" people. I tried confronting her once online and she only gave me a title of a book of an unknown supposedly great doctor who revealed research that vaccines are useless. Of course the book had hardly sold anywhere else other than Greece.

I didn't go on with her because she started getting upset and one thing is talking reason and another thing is implying that she is not a responsible mother. Because, well, that's what she would think I was doing if I went on.

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tied on the chimes of the stars-
if you pull them,
a silver peal makes the horizon vibrate.
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13-01-2014, 03:48 PM
RE: Anti-vaccination
(13-01-2014 03:28 PM)AJRyan6of7 Wrote:  I just had this conversation on Facebook with a cousin of mine who unfortunately is a bit of a wack-job. Our conversation went like this:

Me: Unfortunately, we, in our generation, have been spoiled in that we haven't had to deal with most of the really horrific diseases that vaccines protect against in several generations. So, we have a false sense of security that those diseases no longer exist, or that we are no longer susceptible, or that even if we are susceptible, it won't happen to "our" children. Problem is, they're still out there, they can come back, and our children are not naturally immune.

Her: Nor are they immune to the horrors that a vaccinated society has caused.

Me: Like....?

Her: I think that direct connection is a lot of hype but seriously, it has left us very complacent while also paranoied. The former leads to sloth and ignorance, which combined with the paranoia, creates hysteria and hysterical behavior. Alergies are spiking due to other factors, which have stemmed from the "health" "education" (read "Chemical/Pharmaceutical Prpaganda) false information and partial truths.

Me (thinking in my head "what the heck is she talking about? Do I really want to continue this conversation?" But, I did, unfortunately): If you can cite actual, credible, peer-reviewed scientific evidence for the horrors that vaccines have caused, I'll be happy to look at it.

Her: I will ask my doc for my medical record this afternoon. In the mean time, check your local phone directory for psychologists, psychitrists, weight loss companies, medics in general. The large number of them existing is irrefutable. I was serious when I said that all the popular stuff about there being a direct connection is just a bunch of hype. On the other hand, vaccines is just another drop in the bucket of dependence.

Me (sigh): If the evidence is so irrefutable, please present links to it here. Thank You.

Her: Links to what?

Me: Yeah. I'm out. Thanks Anyway.


It's just disheartening when it's someone in your own family.

AJ

Your cousin's first and foremost problem is that she has not articulated any sort of argument.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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13-01-2014, 05:08 PM
RE: Anti-vaccination
(13-01-2014 03:48 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(13-01-2014 03:28 PM)AJRyan6of7 Wrote:  I just had this conversation on Facebook with a cousin of mine who unfortunately is a bit of a wack-job. Our conversation went like this:[SNIP]

Your cousin's first and foremost problem is that she has not articulated any sort of argument.

Yes, her posts are often hard to follow. I guess I should have set it up better. The original post was from my brother, and it was to an article that discussed the dangers of not vaccinating. My cousins original response to the article was:

Quote:IDK. I Don't buy it. I got all the veccines for one of mine for the first couple few years and he was sickly, very sickly. The second got a selct few to "avoid making waves". she was not the healthiest little thing. I put my foot down with # 3 and momma bear came out with # 4. Guess what. Since # 3 came along and none have gotten more pricks, neither have they gotten more than a little cough or sniffle for like a day or so or teething-related high temps. I just don't buy these ridiculous scare tactics.

So, that's why I posted what I did about our generation (kids born in the 60's and 70's) have been spoiled because we've not grown up with those diseases, so, they don't seem real to us. You saw how the conversation unfolded from there.

Not sure why she wanted to show me her medical record. It really adds nothing to the debate, since I could also show her mine and my daughter's...both of us have had all vaccinations, and both of us are very healthy.

Except, of course, that my daughter hadn't been given the HPV vaccination, and recently, her doctor found pre-cancerous cells. It was an easy procedure to get rid of those cells, and then they gave her the HPV vaccination, so all is good now. But, even that is really just personal experience that adds very little to the conversation.

AJ
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13-01-2014, 05:33 PM
RE: Anti-vaccination
(03-12-2013 01:11 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Not vaccinating children has very huge consequences. Most people don't remember the days when kids routinely were hospitalized for whooping cough or measles.

They also don't know what it's like to have your child wake up one day unable to walk because they're suddenly sick with polio. There are reasons we have vaccines and I think it's pretty irresponsible parenting not to vaccinate.

And I think that's the an unfortuante hugh cause of the creation of the antivacers. Ironically, as a side effect of how successful vaccines have acutally been, most don't remember, or they never experience a time as it was prevaccines. As a result they have a weaked frame of reference for how dangerous not vaccinating actually is.

...
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13-01-2014, 08:54 PM
RE: Anti-vaccination
(13-01-2014 05:08 PM)AJRyan6of7 Wrote:  
(13-01-2014 03:48 PM)Chas Wrote:  Your cousin's first and foremost problem is that she has not articulated any sort of argument.

Yes, her posts are often hard to follow. I guess I should have set it up better. The original post was from my brother, and it was to an article that discussed the dangers of not vaccinating. My cousins original response to the article was:

Quote:IDK. I Don't buy it. I got all the veccines for one of mine for the first couple few years and he was sickly, very sickly. The second got a selct few to "avoid making waves". she was not the healthiest little thing. I put my foot down with # 3 and momma bear came out with # 4. Guess what. Since # 3 came along and none have gotten more pricks, neither have they gotten more than a little cough or sniffle for like a day or so or teething-related high temps. I just don't buy these ridiculous scare tactics.

So, that's why I posted what I did about our generation (kids born in the 60's and 70's) have been spoiled because we've not grown up with those diseases, so, they don't seem real to us. You saw how the conversation unfolded from there.

Not sure why she wanted to show me her medical record. It really adds nothing to the debate, since I could also show her mine and my daughter's...both of us have had all vaccinations, and both of us are very healthy.

Except, of course, that my daughter hadn't been given the HPV vaccination, and recently, her doctor found pre-cancerous cells. It was an easy procedure to get rid of those cells, and then they gave her the HPV vaccination, so all is good now. But, even that is really just personal experience that adds very little to the conversation.

AJ

Oh no! Not the HPV! Shocking Now she's going to start having rampant, random, unprotected sex. Weeping

What kind of degenerate are you? AngrySadcryfaceSadcryface2

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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13-01-2014, 10:08 PM
RE: Anti-vaccination
(13-01-2014 03:28 PM)AJRyan6of7 Wrote:  I just had this conversation on Facebook with a cousin of mine who unfortunately is a bit of a wack-job. Our conversation went like this:

Me: Unfortunately, we, in our generation, have been spoiled in that we haven't had to deal with most of the really horrific diseases that vaccines protect against in several generations. So, we have a false sense of security that those diseases no longer exist, or that we are no longer susceptible, or that even if we are susceptible, it won't happen to "our" children. Problem is, they're still out there, they can come back, and our children are not naturally immune.

Her: Nor are they immune to the horrors that a vaccinated society has caused.

Me: Like....?

Her: I think that direct connection is a lot of hype but seriously, it has left us very complacent while also paranoied. The former leads to sloth and ignorance, which combined with the paranoia, creates hysteria and hysterical behavior. Alergies are spiking due to other factors, which have stemmed from the "health" "education" (read "Chemical/Pharmaceutical Prpaganda) false information and partial truths.

Me (thinking in my head "what the heck is she talking about? Do I really want to continue this conversation?" But, I did, unfortunately): If you can cite actual, credible, peer-reviewed scientific evidence for the horrors that vaccines have caused, I'll be happy to look at it.

Her: I will ask my doc for my medical record this afternoon. In the mean time, check your local phone directory for psychologists, psychitrists, weight loss companies, medics in general. The large number of them existing is irrefutable. I was serious when I said that all the popular stuff about there being a direct connection is just a bunch of hype. On the other hand, vaccines is just another drop in the bucket of dependence.

Me (sigh): If the evidence is so irrefutable, please present links to it here. Thank You.

Her: Links to what?

Me: Yeah. I'm out. Thanks Anyway.


It's just disheartening when it's someone in your own family.


AJ

So your relation's argument is that vaccines make us complacent, paranoid, cause hype and dependant and are therefore bad?

I suppose she enjoys reading of the times when people lived in fear that their family might be struck down by an inexplicable and usually violent sickness with no real hope of prevention or cure. Back in the good old days when people died by the thousands due to the flu and chicken pox which are now minor inconveniences normally...
I mean, who in there right mind wouldn't want to go back and live then?

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
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13-01-2014, 10:10 PM
RE: Anti-vaccination
(13-01-2014 08:54 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(13-01-2014 05:08 PM)AJRyan6of7 Wrote:  Except, of course, that my daughter hadn't been given the HPV vaccination, and recently, her doctor found pre-cancerous cells. It was an easy procedure to get rid of those cells, and then they gave her the HPV vaccination, so all is good now. But, even that is really just personal experience that adds very little to the conversation.

AJ

Oh no! Not the HPV! Shocking Now she's going to start having rampant, random, unprotected sex. Weeping

What kind of degenerate are you? AngrySadcryfaceSadcryface2

LOL! Well, she wouldn't have gotten it in the first place if I hadn't been allowing her to have rampant, random, unprotected sex...horrible atheist parent that I am. Smile One wonders how she survived this long.

Wink

AJ
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14-01-2014, 10:48 AM
Anti-vaccination
(13-01-2014 10:08 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(13-01-2014 03:28 PM)AJRyan6of7 Wrote:  I just had this conversation on Facebook with a cousin of mine who unfortunately is a bit of a wack-job. Our conversation went like this:

Me: Unfortunately, we, in our generation, have been spoiled in that we haven't had to deal with most of the really horrific diseases that vaccines protect against in several generations. So, we have a false sense of security that those diseases no longer exist, or that we are no longer susceptible, or that even if we are susceptible, it won't happen to "our" children. Problem is, they're still out there, they can come back, and our children are not naturally immune.

Her: Nor are they immune to the horrors that a vaccinated society has caused.

Me: Like....?

Her: I think that direct connection is a lot of hype but seriously, it has left us very complacent while also paranoied. The former leads to sloth and ignorance, which combined with the paranoia, creates hysteria and hysterical behavior. Alergies are spiking due to other factors, which have stemmed from the "health" "education" (read "Chemical/Pharmaceutical Prpaganda) false information and partial truths.

Me (thinking in my head "what the heck is she talking about? Do I really want to continue this conversation?" But, I did, unfortunately): If you can cite actual, credible, peer-reviewed scientific evidence for the horrors that vaccines have caused, I'll be happy to look at it.

Her: I will ask my doc for my medical record this afternoon. In the mean time, check your local phone directory for psychologists, psychitrists, weight loss companies, medics in general. The large number of them existing is irrefutable. I was serious when I said that all the popular stuff about there being a direct connection is just a bunch of hype. On the other hand, vaccines is just another drop in the bucket of dependence.

Me (sigh): If the evidence is so irrefutable, please present links to it here. Thank You.

Her: Links to what?

Me: Yeah. I'm out. Thanks Anyway.


It's just disheartening when it's someone in your own family.


AJ

So your relation's argument is that vaccines make us complacent, paranoid, cause hype and dependant and are therefore bad?

I suppose she enjoys reading of the times when people lived in fear that their family might be struck down by an inexplicable and usually violent sickness with no real hope of prevention or cure. Back in the good old days when people died by the thousands due to the flu and chicken pox which are now minor inconveniences normally...
I mean, who in there right mind wouldn't want to go back and live then?

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