Anti-vaccination
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
21-12-2013, 12:55 PM
RE: Anti-vaccination
(21-12-2013 07:26 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(20-12-2013 08:04 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  ...
He's a despicable man. A complete jerk.

And yet, I am still grateful to him.


Why? Andrew Wakefield with his bogus connection between vaccines and autism re-routed hundreds of millions of dollars and 20 years of effort chasing a red herring. It's so unfortunate.

"If things aren't funny anymore then they're exactly what they are and life is just one long dental appointment interrupted occasionally by something exciting like waiting or falling asleep" Jason Robards in A Thousand Clowns
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes dancefortwo's post
22-12-2013, 09:10 PM
RE: Anti-vaccination
Well...I mean IF vaccines were causing harm of this magnitude, the public would definitely have the right to know. I personally think it's bs but I appreciate that people questioned it so fervently. The idea just happened to be one that flopped.




*cough* for real they should just change the preservatives and/or the delivery system *cough*

THIS USER IS NO LONGER ACTIVE. THANK YOU, AND HAVE A GREAT DAY! http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...a-few-days
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
22-12-2013, 10:38 PM
RE: Anti-vaccination
(21-12-2013 12:55 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  
(21-12-2013 07:26 AM)DLJ Wrote:  And yet, I am still grateful to him.


Why? Andrew Wakefield with his bogus connection between vaccines and autism re-routed hundreds of millions of dollars and 20 years of effort chasing a red herring. It's so unfortunate.

Because he put the damn thing on the agenda when no one else was listening.

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
26-12-2013, 05:40 PM
RE: Anti-vaccination
Cephalotus:

The distinction between "natural" & "Synthetic" is just a bogus falsehood used by "new age" or "ancient age traditional" alternative therapy gurus. Its essentially a marketing trick regardless of who uses this distinction. Strychnine in 100% natural but will kill you. Many synthetic drugs are far safer than their "natural" counterparts by purifying the active ingredients or even altering its effects to avoid harmful properties. Eg for fast irregular heart beat you can go find some natural digitalis plant and eat it (& probably die) or take exact measured amounts of the drug digoxin. Dozens of examples like this. I personally have treated and seen a number of deaths from liver failure from "natural Chinese medicines" in the hospital I work in. unfortunately there is poor or no regulation to the alternative medicine market and these deaths are not reported. Whilst "big pharma" has its problems (and oh boy it does) at least there is regulation and reporting of adverse effects which health professionals are obliged to complete.

As for the "natural" additives in vaccines consider this article:
http://www.harpocratesspeaks.com/2012/04...ients.html
Formaldehyde in vaccines sounds horrible unnatural and dangerous - but as this article points our the quantities are ridiculously small and our own metabolism pumps out formaldehyde in any case - basically its propaganda from the anti-vaccine conspiracists which sells well. After all everyone has watched those movies with bodies pickled in formaldehyde and the very thought that its added to vaccines immediately has a negative emotional association.

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence -
David Hume


[Image: images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRhOs7rUrS5bRKvWS7clR7...gNs5ZwpVef]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Baruch's post
26-12-2013, 07:38 PM
RE: Anti-vaccination
(26-12-2013 05:40 PM)Baruch Wrote:  Cephalotus:

The distinction between "natural" & "Synthetic" is just a bogus falsehood used by "new age" or "ancient age traditional" alternative therapy gurus. Its essentially a marketing trick regardless of who uses this distinction. Strychnine in 100% natural but will kill you. Many synthetic drugs are far safer than their "natural" counterparts by purifying the active ingredients or even altering its effects to avoid harmful properties. Eg for fast irregular heart beat you can go find some natural digitalis plant and eat it (& probably die) or take exact measured amounts of the drug digoxin. Dozens of examples like this. I personally have treated and seen a number of deaths from liver failure from "natural Chinese medicines" in the hospital I work in. unfortunately there is poor or no regulation to the alternative medicine market and these deaths are not reported. Whilst "big pharma" has its problems (and oh boy it does) at least there is regulation and reporting of adverse effects which health professionals are obliged to complete.

As for the "natural" additives in vaccines consider this article:
http://www.harpocratesspeaks.com/2012/04...ients.html
Formaldehyde in vaccines sounds horrible unnatural and dangerous - but as this article points our the quantities are ridiculously small and our own metabolism pumps out formaldehyde in any case - basically its propaganda from the anti-vaccine conspiracists which sells well. After all everyone has watched those movies with bodies pickled in formaldehyde and the very thought that its added to vaccines immediately has a negative emotional association.

*facepalm*

I said to change the preservatives SO THE HIPPIES WOULD *THINK* they were safer. I specifically said that, twice.

THIS USER IS NO LONGER ACTIVE. THANK YOU, AND HAVE A GREAT DAY! http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...a-few-days
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Cephalotus's post
28-12-2013, 12:16 PM
RE: Anti-vaccination
Quote:I said to change the preservatives SO THE HIPPIES WOULD *THINK* they were safer. I specifically said that, twice.

Any ideas for how to change the names to make them seem safe ?
formaldehyde *IS* the "natural" ingredient in vaccines ! (synthetically produced) If anything the formaldehyde is more natural than the vaccine !

ideas...

"Contains CH2O a naturally occurring metabolic extract"

"contains Methanal in miniscule amounts compared to natural amounts in human body"
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-12-2013, 12:22 AM
RE: Anti-vaccination
Are you fucking high? You don't seem to understand what this conversation is about whatsoever.

THIS USER IS NO LONGER ACTIVE. THANK YOU, AND HAVE A GREAT DAY! http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...a-few-days
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Cephalotus's post
30-12-2013, 09:12 AM
RE: Anti-vaccination
Pregnant nurse fired for refusing flu vaccine.

Posting this because I think it's somewhat relevant to the discussion.

I don't think this woman falls into the category of anti-vaccine nut. I think she's just concerned about something that is not fully understood. I'm not aware of any perceived correlations between flu shots and miscarriages, but I do know that a vast majority of the time there is a miscarriage it is impossible to know why (and I have some personal experience with this). Can a flu shot cause a miscarriage? I have absolutely no idea. I don't believe there is any evidence to support that it can but that doesn't prove it doesn't.

What I found most interesting about this article is that they allow people to refuse a flu shot for religious reasons. Why does irrational belief trump irrational fear? The mandate for flu shots is there for a valid reason. Letting people in without those vaccines creates a risk for everyone. Having a religious objection does not decrease that risk. There is caselaw within the US that says religious objections do not over ride legitimate health and safety concerns (but they have to be legitimate). I think a requirement for a flu vaccine is a legitimate health and safety concern. So, I'm ok with this woman losing her job over this. I'm not ok with the religious exemption.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
30-12-2013, 09:48 AM
Anti-vaccination
(30-12-2013 09:12 AM)BnW Wrote:  Pregnant nurse fired for refusing flu vaccine.

Posting this because I think it's somewhat relevant to the discussion.

I don't think this woman falls into the category of anti-vaccine nut. I think she's just concerned about something that is not fully understood. I'm not aware of any perceived correlations between flu shots and miscarriages, but I do know that a vast majority of the time there is a miscarriage it is impossible to know why (and I have some personal experience with this). Can a flu shot cause a miscarriage? I have absolutely no idea. I don't believe there is any evidence to support that it can but that doesn't prove it doesn't.

What I found most interesting about this article is that they allow people to refuse a flu shot for religious reasons. Why does irrational belief trump irrational fear? The mandate for flu shots is there for a valid reason. Letting people in without those vaccines creates a risk for everyone. Having a religious objection does not decrease that risk. There is caselaw within the US that says religious objections do not over ride legitimate health and safety concerns (but they have to be legitimate). I think a requirement for a flu vaccine is a legitimate health and safety concern. So, I'm ok with this woman losing her job over this. I'm not ok with the religious exemption.

I'd like to think it rather important that an RN understand the mechanism of immunology. My daughter sure seems to be learning a lot at her nursing school, more than I expected.

Maybe it's an image thing on behalf of the hospital?

He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy! -Brian's mum
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
30-12-2013, 10:40 AM
RE: Anti-vaccination
(28-12-2013 12:16 PM)Baruch Wrote:  Any ideas for how to change the names to make them seem safe ?

Preserved with all-natural ingredients.

Hey, since the term is meaningless any damned fool can use it. Given the tiny amount required you could probably add on "from eucalyptus" or similar BS at negligible cost.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: