Antivaxxer facebook debate
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23-10-2015, 10:48 AM
Antivaxxer facebook debate
Alright So I'm debating with an antivaxxer. I got us down to just discussing SV40. She says SV40 has been proven to cause cancer. I said that's not evidently so. She said, "how do you explain this?" and posted this article:

Simian virus 40 footprints in normal human tissues, brain and bone tumours of different histotypes.

Thoughts? Not sure what she's trying to prove here. Looks like the fallacy of equating correlation with causation, but I think it's more than that.

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23-10-2015, 11:02 AM
RE: Antivaxxer facebook debate
I think she will then go to in about how vaccines probably still contain sv40?
Wikipedia-Soon after its discovery, SV40 was identified in the oral form of the polio vaccine produced between 1955 and 1961 by American Home Products (dba Lederle). This is believed to be due to two sources: 1) SV40 contamination of the original seed strain (coded SOM); 2) contamination of the substrate—primary kidney cells from infected monkeys used to grow the vaccine virus during production. Both the Sabin vaccine (oral, live virus) and the Salk vaccine (injectable, killed virus) were affected; the technique used to inactivate the polio virus in the Salk vaccine, by means of formaldehyde, did not reliably kill SV40

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It's too damn "peopley" out there....
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23-10-2015, 12:09 PM
RE: Antivaxxer facebook debate
Here's your filter for whether it's even worth your time:
Smallpox. Polio.

The most abject reality-denial will refuse to accept even those as real.

Anyone with even the barest thread tying them back to the real world will be forced to walk back and and admit that vaccines are therefore in principle effective, because obviously nobody has polio or smallpox anymore and they'll probably agree with you that that's an improvement over the way things used to be.
(they'll then gish gallop you with interminable bullshit about secret buzzword "chemicals" they once heard about on conspiritard internet venues and argue that it's modern "vaccines" that are really secret Reptiloid mind control schemes or whatever the fuck, but that tiny germ of conformity with reality is enough that you might just manage a conversation)

Notwithstanding that anything can be "proven" to "cause" cancer, so long as you're patient and have no intellectual integrity.
Step 1: administer compound X to some lab animals.
(optional bonus step 1.5: begin with cancer-prone breeds or include other known carcinogens in the protocol)
Step 2: wait for tumors to develop in your lab animals.
(particularly in light of step 1.5 this is virtually guaranteed to happen eventually)
Step 3: declare that compound X caused the tumors.
(optional bonus step 4: monetise the gullibility of the ignorant by selling "compound X free" woo-ware on the internet)

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23-10-2015, 12:12 PM
RE: Antivaxxer facebook debate
Only certain Polio vaccines in the late 50's contained SV40 and they were all clean and eradicated by 63. Studies showed that the tumors could only be a risk if injected not ingested and hardly anyone who got the contaminated vaccines ever showed signs of the disease. SV40 is null and void when talking about modern vaccines.

http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skeptical...ncer-myth/

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23-10-2015, 01:06 PM
RE: Antivaxxer facebook debate
When my mother was a little girl of about 8 she went away for Christmas break and when she returned 5 of her classmates had died from diptheria. She was surrounded by the empty desks of her dead school chums. Let me tell you, this made a huge impression on her that she never forgot. This was in a small town of about 2000 people in Canada and there were other children in the town who died from diptheria that year.

If this were to happen today and there was nothing the medical community could do about it parents everywhere would be terrified. They'd feel helpless. They'd be up in arms and pleading with science to find a cure. Yet this was the way the world was not too long ago. Children died of diseases right and left, it was just part of the perils of living.

This fb woman needs to just fuck off.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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23-10-2015, 01:22 PM
RE: Antivaxxer facebook debate
I listen to Star Talk with Neil Degrass Tyson. In one episode (sorry I couldn't remember which one) he had a notable Virus Biologist talking about desises and viruses. The topic of Anti-Vaxxers came up and she said it pretty easy to she how wrong they are. All one would have to do is a quick check into measles outbreak in Wales in early 2013. An Anti-Vax movement had taken hold. And people stopped getting the vaccines to fight it. Soon there after thousands of people started getting sick with measles, and it spreed very rapidly.

When Anti-Vaxxers make clams. Like "I've done the research." I always doubt they have.

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23-10-2015, 01:37 PM
RE: Antivaxxer facebook debate
(23-10-2015 01:22 PM)Commonsensei Wrote:  When Anti-Vaxxers make clams. Like "I've done the research." I always doubt they have.

When they say "research" they really mean "google search for things that agree with me".

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23-10-2015, 02:38 PM
RE: Antivaxxer facebook debate
I've almost given up on anti-vaxxers because they're the hardest to "convert". Unlike religious people or common woo followers, admitting that they are wrong for them also means admitting that they've been a horrible parent all along, exposing their children to horrible illnesses and even death. Few people can admit that even to themselves.

(23-10-2015 01:22 PM)Commonsensei Wrote:  When Anti-Vaxxers make clams.

Baked or boiled? Consider

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-Guybrush Threepwood-
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23-10-2015, 02:39 PM
RE: Antivaxxer facebook debate
(23-10-2015 02:38 PM)undergroundp Wrote:  I've almost given up on anti-vaxxers because they're the hardest to "convert". Unlike religious people or common woo followers, admitting that they are wrong for them also means admitting that they've been a horrible parent all along, exposing their children to horrible illnesses and even death. Few people can admit that even to themselves.

(23-10-2015 01:22 PM)Commonsensei Wrote:  When Anti-Vaxxers make clams.

Baked or boiled? Consider

Facepalm

I did it again.

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23-10-2015, 03:06 PM
RE: Antivaxxer facebook debate
(23-10-2015 01:37 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(23-10-2015 01:22 PM)Commonsensei Wrote:  When Anti-Vaxxers make clams. Like "I've done the research." I always doubt they have.

When they say "research" they really mean "google search for things that agree with me".




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