Any Republican Atheists Here?
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21-11-2014, 10:33 AM
RE: Any Republican Atheists Here?
(21-11-2014 08:20 AM)Res Publica Wrote:  Republicans are not anti-intellectual, they are against higher education having a ideological agenda. They believe that students should be encouraged to think for themselves.

That may be the funniest thing I've read in a long time.
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21-11-2014, 10:49 AM
RE: Any Republican Atheists Here?
(21-11-2014 10:33 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(21-11-2014 08:20 AM)Res Publica Wrote:  Republicans are not anti-intellectual, they are against higher education having a ideological agenda. They believe that students should be encouraged to think for themselves.

That may be the funniest thing I've read in a long time.
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Although it's fundamentally true, or at least it would be if Christianity hadn't hijacked things.

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21-11-2014, 10:56 AM (This post was last modified: 21-11-2014 11:03 AM by yakherder.)
RE: Any Republican Atheists Here?
(21-11-2014 10:18 AM)Cetaceaphile Wrote:  
(21-11-2014 09:27 AM)yakherder Wrote:  Because the majority of those who don't have those ID's, whether they have a legal right to vote or not, are minorities and the poor, and requiring government ID is not likely to reduce voter fraud. So, though the idea is not necessarily wrong in and of itself, the effect of enforcing that idea would be considered discriminatory since it would be more likely to subtract from the Democratic pool of voters than from the Republican pool of voters. Theoretically.

Don't you need a form of ID to get a bank account over there? I'd say it seems like it only excludes welfare leeches, but I assume you need a bank account and further proof of identity to even be a welfare leech?

Maybe national insurance number and birth certificate and not considered valid ID for voting then? In that case it seems like a problem if you need to have a driving license or a passport, if not though then I am not sure what the problem would be. I would be opposed to Picture ID being required for voter registration.

Not sure about welfare. Things like food stamps are put onto EBT accounts, which you access using a card that has certain limitations, such as you can withdraw a specified amount of cash per month, may only buy food and other eligible items from the store, etc. In other words, you do not have to have a bank account, driver's license, etc., and requiring one of those things would, again theoretically, be discriminatory against the segment of the population that is less likely to be driving and opening bank accounts.

I'm not against the concept of requiring ID, but the fire behind the debate is that the only reason the Republican party has any interest in pushing the issue is because they know it would result in the Democratic party getting less votes.

I worked at Mandalay Bay in Las Vegas for a while. They actually offered a work account for those who, for whatever reason (in some cases because of lack of legal residency status), didn't have a bank account for direct deposit or cashing checks. The card was issued by the employer, had a Visa logo on it so it could be used as a credit card, and did not require the holder to have any type of account outside of the one provided by the employer. Most of the casinos had similar options, as I'm sure many employers throughout the country do. That's not to say they intentionally hire people who are not authorized to work. The employers all require ID and such as part of the hiring process. But those things can be faked. I knew several people I worked alongside who freely admitted to me that their credentials were fake.

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21-11-2014, 11:02 AM
RE: Any Republican Atheists Here?
Higher Education's only "agenda" is to concern itself with FACTS and EVIDENCE rather than superstition, at least in scientific fields. There are more than a few "Bible Colleges," where people can pursue inquiry into matters of the soul and get a degree.
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21-11-2014, 11:07 AM
RE: Any Republican Atheists Here?
(21-11-2014 10:32 AM)Cetaceaphile Wrote:  
(21-11-2014 10:29 AM)wazzel Wrote:  IMO requiring a photo ID for voting is hardly a burden considering all the everyday things that require an ID. Simple stuff like cashing a check or buying a beer. IIRC you also need some sort of picture ID to receive government assistance. The cost of a state issues photo ID is cheap and, again IIRC, a low income person or elderly can apply to have the fee waved.

I'm not sure about in America, but here we have special IDs made especially for use for buying alcohol and they are super cheap. Nothing really special about them except they'll email you coupons to nightclubs endlessly for years... Although at £5.25 it was a bargain ID. :Y

A state issued photo ID for a non driver is around $10, depending on the state.
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21-11-2014, 11:52 AM
RE: Any Republican Atheists Here?
(21-11-2014 11:07 AM)wazzel Wrote:  
(21-11-2014 10:32 AM)Cetaceaphile Wrote:  I'm not sure about in America, but here we have special IDs made especially for use for buying alcohol and they are super cheap. Nothing really special about them except they'll email you coupons to nightclubs endlessly for years... Although at £5.25 it was a bargain ID. :Y

A state issued photo ID for a non driver is around $10, depending on the state.

It vastly ranges. Some states it can be 8 dollars, some states it can be 23 dollars, it fluctuates. Some states it's harder or easier to get and some last for a few years only and others are permanent. It also takes time in usually having to go wait for awhile at a DMV/RMV/Village Hall that isn't always easy for people due to limited business daytime hours.

There is plenty of people who have zero need for an ID for any everyday thing. Don't drink alcohol or people 18-20 who can vote, who maybe live in an urban area or go directly to a university have no reason to have gotten a driver licence are out of an ID. It's an intended manipulation and many of the issues could be avoided, but it's not desired to be by some.

And to bank accounts, I once got a bank account with my student ID from my school. It was all I needed and that worked because they worked together to provide the service.

And Res Republic... where do you get your info to form your views? Do you not know what causes most book bannings? It's not some liberal force trying to censor anything, it's a social conservatives desire to ban books almost all the time.

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21-11-2014, 12:02 PM
RE: Any Republican Atheists Here?
The hardest part of getting an I.D. is the fact that, in some of the more understaffed areas especially, you have to go and wait in line for like 7 hours on a weekday. That's not an easy thing to do if you have a crappy employer, or even a decent one.

At Mandalay Bay (one of my few civilian employment experiences, and one which I felt was overall a phenomenal employer), the labor union would use our dues to campaign for the Democratic party and arrange for us to take paid time off from work to go vote, for which they provided transportation. That part I was fine with, but campaigning for a candidate I didn't necessarily agree with using money that I was essentially required to pay kind of pissed me off.

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21-11-2014, 12:17 PM
RE: Any Republican Atheists Here?
(21-11-2014 10:49 AM)Cetaceaphile Wrote:  Although it's fundamentally true, or at least it would be if Christianity hadn't hijacked things.

Sadly true. It was a funny statement given the Republican party as it is today, not how it has been or could be without the religious wingnuts.

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21-11-2014, 12:47 PM
RE: Any Republican Atheists Here?
(20-11-2014 07:12 PM)KidCharlemagne1962 Wrote:  To me, it's spending tax money as wisely as possible, trying to keep taxes as low as possible and encouraging small and medium size business.

Well; that's just the thing, isn't it?

Nobody is advocating unwise spending, now, are they?

At least not, to be sure, unwise in the minds of its advocates. Which is why I find such statements of universal principle presented as a point of disagreement to be uncomfortably prone to facetiousness...

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21-11-2014, 12:50 PM
RE: Any Republican Atheists Here?
(20-11-2014 09:30 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  
Quote:In my case it's basically a shorthand for the principle that, as a general rule, less government is better than more government.

So, do you think that a modern, industrial state can be operated with the government as it existed in 1840? Because that is essentially what these so-called libertarians want.

The problem with "libertarian" as an identity is that it means ever so many different things to different people - and that many of the loudest, most self-identified such people are raving lunatics.
(to wit - this very forum: witness ol' Lumi, et al.)

Do you know who would agree with the statement, "government should be as hands-off as possible"? Everyone. All of the differences of opinion are contained within the word "possible".

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