Any Truth to Passover/Exodus?
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21-01-2015, 09:11 AM
Any Truth to Passover/Exodus?
I got into a "conversation" with my father in law the other day about the whole Passover story. He's not a believer. He's ethnically Jewish, and proud of the culture and tradition, but doesn't attend services and though I've never pressed him on his beliefs he's a science-minded guy and I'm fairly sure he thinks the whole god idea is a crock.

Anyway we were talking about how ridiculous the whole idea of parting the Red Sea was and I alluded to the fact that there's no indication that any of it, the enslavement of the Jews, the exodus, etc. ever happened at all, and that's where his attitude sort of pivoted, lol.

I'd always heard that there was absolutely zero evidence, no histories other than the scriptures, to confirm that the Jews were ever enslaved in Egypt at all, to say nothing of the plagues, and the parting of the Red Sea and all that. Am I wrong? Are there any contemporary histories written by the Egyptians or other groups to corroborate the story? Thought I'd put it to the history buffs here.
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21-01-2015, 09:19 AM
RE: Any Truth to Passover/Exodus?
No.

Any real places or real people mentioned in any holy book, no matter what religion, still would not constitute magic or invisible sky heros.

It really is no different than George Washington and the legend of the Cherry Tree. We can rent movies showing superman flying around real cities, but that does not make superman real.

But as far as Jews being slaves in Egypt, that was never true, and is a bullshit story.

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21-01-2015, 09:23 AM
RE: Any Truth to Passover/Exodus?
(21-01-2015 09:11 AM)Mr. Boston Wrote:  I got into a "conversation" with my father in law the other day about the whole Passover story. He's not a believer. He's ethnically Jewish, and proud of the culture and tradition, but doesn't attend services and though I've never pressed him on his beliefs he's a science-minded guy and I'm fairly sure he thinks the whole god idea is a crock.

Anyway we were talking about how ridiculous the whole idea of parting the Red Sea was and I alluded to the fact that there's no indication that any of it, the enslavement of the Jews, the exodus, etc. ever happened at all, and that's where his attitude sort of pivoted, lol.

I'd always heard that there was absolutely zero evidence, no histories other than the scriptures, to confirm that the Jews were ever enslaved in Egypt at all, to say nothing of the plagues, and the parting of the Red Sea and all that. Am I wrong? Are there any contemporary histories written by the Egyptians or other groups to corroborate the story? Thought I'd put it to the history buffs here.

Check out "The Bible's Buried Secrets". Basically no, the story was invented, as historians know that at the time it was to have happened, there were already settlements of Jews in Canaan. It probably reflects the
http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily...he-hyksos/
or this : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merneptah_Stele

The way the story is written reflects many elements and prejudices of their later history.
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...ble-Bull-s




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21-01-2015, 09:29 AM (This post was last modified: 21-01-2015 09:34 AM by The Organic Chemist.)
RE: Any Truth to Passover/Exodus?
Why someone would not be horrified by it escapes me. And I am supposedly the immoral one.

[Image: 120-The-story-of-passover-God-kills-a-bu...ticide.jpg]

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
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21-01-2015, 09:31 AM
RE: Any Truth to Passover/Exodus?
(21-01-2015 09:11 AM)Mr. Boston Wrote:  I got into a "conversation" with my father in law the other day about the whole Passover story. He's not a believer. He's ethnically Jewish, and proud of the culture and tradition, but doesn't attend services and though I've never pressed him on his beliefs he's a science-minded guy and I'm fairly sure he thinks the whole god idea is a crock.

Anyway we were talking about how ridiculous the whole idea of parting the Red Sea was and I alluded to the fact that there's no indication that any of it, the enslavement of the Jews, the exodus, etc. ever happened at all, and that's where his attitude sort of pivoted, lol.

I'd always heard that there was absolutely zero evidence, no histories other than the scriptures, to confirm that the Jews were ever enslaved in Egypt at all, to say nothing of the plagues, and the parting of the Red Sea and all that. Am I wrong? Are there any contemporary histories written by the Egyptians or other groups to corroborate the story? Thought I'd put it to the history buffs here.

Nope. It's a bunch of shit.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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21-01-2015, 09:33 AM
RE: Any Truth to Passover/Exodus?
(21-01-2015 09:19 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  No.

Any real places or real people mentioned in any holy book, no matter what religion, still would not constitute magic or invisible sky heros.

Oh shut up. Harry Potter is REAL because it mentioned London. You may not believe in our Lord Voldemort, but he believes in you. Big Grin

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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21-01-2015, 09:34 AM
RE: Any Truth to Passover/Exodus?
(21-01-2015 09:19 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  No.

Any real places or real people mentioned in any holy book, no matter what religion, still would not constitute magic or invisible sky heros.

It really is no different than George Washington and the legend of the Cherry Tree. We can rent movies showing superman flying around real cities, but that does not make superman real.

But as far as Jews being slaves in Egypt, that was never true, and is a bullshit story.

Well sure, I'm not asserting that the story confirms the existence of the Sky Daddy. Your George Washington analogy is interesting. It's true the cherry tree story can't be confirmed, but we DO know there was a real man named George Washington. But was there a Moses? I'm inclined to think there was not. And if not, why make up a story about your people being persecuted like that? How could such a fable take root and be believed by millions of people as actual historical fact? Religion that's how.
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21-01-2015, 09:43 AM
RE: Any Truth to Passover/Exodus?
And inspiration. Those stories are meant to inspire them and make them feel special, all warm and fuzzy.

Check out my now-defunct atheism blog. It's just a blog, no ads, no revenue, no gods.
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21-01-2015, 09:53 AM
RE: Any Truth to Passover/Exodus?
(21-01-2015 09:34 AM)Mr. Boston Wrote:  
(21-01-2015 09:19 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  No.

Any real places or real people mentioned in any holy book, no matter what religion, still would not constitute magic or invisible sky heros.

It really is no different than George Washington and the legend of the Cherry Tree. We can rent movies showing superman flying around real cities, but that does not make superman real.

But as far as Jews being slaves in Egypt, that was never true, and is a bullshit story.

Well sure, I'm not asserting that the story confirms the existence of the Sky Daddy. Your George Washington analogy is interesting. It's true the cherry tree story can't be confirmed, but we DO know there was a real man named George Washington. But was there a Moses? I'm inclined to think there was not. And if not, why make up a story about your people being persecuted like that? How could such a fable take root and be believed by millions of people as actual historical fact? Religion that's how.

The work of Israel Finkelstein also showed many old stories to not be plausible. This is a bit old but it is a starting point if you want to learn more.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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21-01-2015, 09:53 AM
RE: Any Truth to Passover/Exodus?
(21-01-2015 09:43 AM)WillHopp Wrote:  And inspiration. Those stories are meant to inspire them and make them feel special, all warm and fuzzy.

Yeah that's exactly it. Hogwash. We're not raising our kids with any specific faith, and we're both going to be honest and open with them about what WE believe (or don't). But it is important to us that they know the history of their people. So my wife wants them to have a basic understanding of what it means to be Jewish, or how to be Jewish. I also want them to have a basic familiarity with Irish and German cultures, both the legends and the real history.

Truth be told there are a lot of "values," in Judaism I like. Focusing on family, community, and charity is great. It's all this "Chosen People," bullshit that bothers me. I think it encourages an air of arrogance, superiority, and entitlement quite frankly. My son's a smart and good-looking kid, he doesn't need to be "chosen" on top of all that, lol.
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