Any liberals capable of defending income tax laws?
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19-05-2014, 09:26 AM
RE: Any liberals capable of defending income tax laws?
(19-05-2014 09:10 AM)Im_Ryan Wrote:  Who the hell would report this? I've never heard of someone going to jail for helping their dying neighbor and not reporting a bartering transaction that later happened.

See here is your mistake thinking this thread has anything to do with reality. It doesn't.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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19-05-2014, 09:40 AM
RE: Any liberals capable of defending income tax laws?
(19-05-2014 09:26 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(19-05-2014 09:10 AM)Im_Ryan Wrote:  Who the hell would report this? I've never heard of someone going to jail for helping their dying neighbor and not reporting a bartering transaction that later happened.

See here is your mistake thinking this thread has anything to do with reality. It doesn't.

I was going along with the OP for a second until I asked myself when has this ever happened?
I've heard of thieves robbing a house, injuring themselves, then suing the owners (and winning), but not this.

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19-05-2014, 09:54 AM
RE: Any liberals capable of defending income tax laws?
(19-05-2014 08:51 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Indeed one could flip the question and ask how Libertarians/Anarchists can justify stealing from the public by using public services (Roads bridges schools etc) while wishing to not pay for their upkeep. But of course then you get the song and dance.

No, I've already answered the flipped question many times. Of course, if you want to use some services or infrastructure, you should pay for them. The ONLY thing we argue is that people should be given a choice and not forced to pay for horrible, useless services they don't want or use. See, no song and dance.

Why aren't you willing to answer the question I asked of you? I asked in my OP if any liberals would answer the question and it appears to be "No". Best case you'll just ask other questions in an attempt to change the subject.
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19-05-2014, 09:57 AM
RE: Any liberals capable of defending income tax laws?
(19-05-2014 08:17 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Location and service. Is A and B doing this act in areaa or though infrastructure C established/maintained? Then there's reason for compensation to continue the pathway.

Sure, _IF_ a and b want to use something that C owns/establishes/maintains, they should negotiate with C and either pay it, or don't use C's services. Nobody's disputing this. This is just a red herring to avoid the original question. Is ANY liberal willing to answer the questions in my OP? Or will all of them keep trying to dodge them?
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19-05-2014, 10:06 AM
RE: Any liberals capable of defending income tax laws?
(19-05-2014 09:10 AM)Im_Ryan Wrote:  Who the hell would report this?

The IRS makes bartering with your dying neighbor and not reporting it and paying them for it a felony crime, punishable by several years in jail. AND the IRS offers a financial reward to tipsters who turn in their neighbor.

Same system the Soviets used. You catch your neighbor reading a western book, turn him over to the police, he's hauled off to the gulags, and you get a reward.
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19-05-2014, 10:08 AM
RE: Any liberals capable of defending income tax laws?
(19-05-2014 09:26 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(19-05-2014 09:10 AM)Im_Ryan Wrote:  Who the hell would report this? I've never heard of someone going to jail for helping their dying neighbor and not reporting a bartering transaction that later happened.

See here is your mistake thinking this thread has anything to do with reality. It doesn't.

See, you're willing to invest the time to post. Just not to answer the questions in my OP. You claim we libertarians are smug in our thinking but what do you expect when we ask our ideological opponents such basic and obvious questions about their beliefs and they're unable to answer, resorting to personal insults.
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19-05-2014, 10:20 AM
RE: Any liberals capable of defending income tax laws?
(19-05-2014 09:40 AM)Im_Ryan Wrote:  I was going along with the OP for a second until I asked myself when has this ever happened?
I've heard of thieves robbing a house, injuring themselves, then suing the owners (and winning), but not this.

See, that proves my point. If I describe the scenario as a barter (like in scenario #1 and #2) then liberals generally find it unoffensive. If, however, I describe the exact same transaction but a medium of exchange is used, then liberals want you hauled off to jail. The whole point of my OP was to ask for justification for finding bartering harmless (as you indicate in your reply), but not bartering with a medium of exchange.

Besides, yes, it does happen. The IRS rules are here. Barters, like the one in my example, must be reported on form 1099-B. It is a felony to refuse to comply. The IRS receives tips all the time on this and cracks down on unreported bartering. The IRS has to do this because scenarios 1 and 2 (bartering) are functionally the same as the others, only a different medium of exchange, and therefore, if they didn't make bartering illegal, people would simply change the medium of exchange, join bartering groups, and not give the IRS a cut.
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19-05-2014, 10:28 AM
RE: Any liberals capable of defending income tax laws?
(19-05-2014 10:06 AM)frankksj Wrote:  
(19-05-2014 09:10 AM)Im_Ryan Wrote:  Who the hell would report this?

The IRS makes bartering with your dying neighbor and not reporting it and paying them for it a felony crime, punishable by several years in jail. AND the IRS offers a financial reward to tipsters who turn in their neighbor.

Same system the Soviets used. You catch your neighbor reading a western book, turn him over to the police, he's hauled off to the gulags, and you get a reward.

Really? I've never heard of this, but okay. I'll go with it, can you give me an example of this? A news article or anything of the sort?

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19-05-2014, 10:30 AM
RE: Any liberals capable of defending income tax laws?
(19-05-2014 10:20 AM)frankksj Wrote:  
(19-05-2014 09:40 AM)Im_Ryan Wrote:  I was going along with the OP for a second until I asked myself when has this ever happened?
I've heard of thieves robbing a house, injuring themselves, then suing the owners (and winning), but not this.

See, that proves my point. If I describe the scenario as a barter (like in scenario #1 and #2) then liberals generally find it unoffensive. If, however, I describe the exact same transaction but a medium of exchange is used, then liberals want you hauled off to jail. The whole point of my OP was to ask for justification for finding bartering harmless (as you indicate in your reply), but not bartering with a medium of exchange.

Besides, yes, it does happen. The IRS rules are here. Barters, like the one in my example, must be reported on form 1099-B. It is a felony to refuse to comply. The IRS receives tips all the time on this and cracks down on unreported bartering. The IRS has to do this because scenarios 1 and 2 (bartering) are functionally the same as the others, only a different medium of exchange, and therefore, if they didn't make bartering illegal, people would simply change the medium of exchange, join bartering groups, and not give the IRS a cut.

The link you provided is for business models, not helping your dying neighbor.

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19-05-2014, 10:40 AM
Re: RE: Any liberals capable of defending income tax laws?
(19-05-2014 10:08 AM)frankksj Wrote:  
(19-05-2014 09:26 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  See here is your mistake thinking this thread has anything to do with reality. It doesn't.

See, you're willing to invest the time to post. Just not to answer the questions in my OP. You claim we libertarians are smug in our thinking but what do you expect when we ask our ideological opponents such basic and obvious questions about their beliefs and they're unable to answer, resorting to personal insults.

You keep saying the question despite there being multiple questions in your post.. And clearly still two main questions. It makes you stand open to insults.

It's rather difficult for me to answer as I disagree with your pov or positions. For one, a society is not merely a group of individuals. A society is made up of a group of individuals in an location or in accordance to certain laws/rules.

Also I'm clearly not equal with you on property. I would gladly pay more income taxes than the property taxes I pay. That goes to the concept of property which I'm not find valid. And it's not that I think states should have claim over property. I don't want to spurn your created thread this way, but it is why I find answering your question undoable in an honest manner.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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