Any liberals capable of defending income tax laws?
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19-05-2014, 09:17 PM
RE: Any liberals capable of defending income tax laws?
(19-05-2014 08:52 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Do you know what psychological projection is?

Cjlr, why don't you weigh in? First, a simple yes/no question to see if we can agree on the meaning of words. You saw the quotes from the IRS and Chas's insistent that bartering "is not reportable income if it is not commercial". Do you agree with Chas?

And since you always attack for assuming your position and not asking you, here I am asking you. Rather than writing pages and pages of insults that accomplish nothing, please make it productive and answer the questions in my OP so I can better understand your position. It's not fair to criticize me for not respecting your opinion when I ask you point blank and you refuse to provide it. And it's silly to insist you can't reply because you don't have time to reply my trollercoaster. You read this thread, you invested the time to craft a response, you've found the time to type up hundreds of pages of posts attacking my views, so surely you can find the time share your views with us. Wouldn't telling us what you think be more useful than just telling other people they're ignorant?

You might also check IM_Ryan's answers in post #51, and if you agree with him, then save yourself the time and just reply to my counter-questions in post #54.
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19-05-2014, 09:29 PM
RE: Any liberals capable of defending income tax laws?
(19-05-2014 09:00 PM)sporehux Wrote:  Two commercial entities bartering goods/services to avoid a million dollars in tax, hurts the community, hospitals/schools/roads etc.

1 billion tonnes of sugar swapped for a million tonnes of coffee is a little different then a neighbour borrowing sugar for their coffee FFS.

Please clarify.

Scenario #1: If all the coffee and sugar company do not produce anything (ie no coffee and sugar are being made), so they don't barter anything, don't sell anything, don't trade anything, then they owe society nothing, right? They owe no debt to the community, hospitals, schools for doing nothing, correct?

Scenario #2: Now, let's assume that, as you propose, they DO grow a billion tonnes of sugar and swap it for a million tonnes of coffee, but don't pay any income tax. Now they obviously had to create thousands of jobs to pay workers to make the coffee and sugar, and instead of letting the land go to waste, they put it to productive use. And now there's coffee and sugar on the market for consumers to buy and, even though no income tax was paid, it still generates sales tax. And thousands of more workers are employed in the coffee shops selling all this coffee and sugar.

So how exactly are they hurting the community and hospitals and schools with scenario #2 and not with scenario #1 since with scenario #2, although they're not paying income taxes, they still are doing a lot of good creating jobs and providing us goods that make our lives more enjoyable. Please, be specific, and explain the mechanism why, when you move from scenario #1 to scenario #2, hospitals and schools get hurt. And please, no distraction saying the hospital and school would be better off still with scenario #3 where both sides pay income tax. I'm not debating that--it's a red herring. All I'm debating is your assertion that scenario #2 hurts society, but scenario #1 does not.
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19-05-2014, 09:37 PM
RE: Any liberals capable of defending income tax laws?
Sure, I could give you valid reasons and logic to justify income tax and pretty much most tax for that matter. (certain types of tax are bullshit).

Just 1 question, what kind of income tax are we talking about here?
Oh nevermind I'll give reasons for both.

Just not now, lunch time now.

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19-05-2014, 09:52 PM
RE: Any liberals capable of defending income tax laws?
I'm sorry, I cannot continue this. I'm not wasting any more time, I honestly tried.

Good day.

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19-05-2014, 10:00 PM
Any liberals capable of defending income tax laws?
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“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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19-05-2014, 10:00 PM
RE: Any liberals capable of defending income tax laws?
(19-05-2014 09:37 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  Sure, I could give you valid reasons and logic to justify income tax and pretty much most tax for that matter. (certain types of tax are bullshit). Just 1 question, what kind of income tax are we talking about here?

It's primarily a general, philosophical question on the origin of rights. If a and b, in the privacy of their homes, voluntarily do things for each other that both feel make them better off, where did c get the right to haul them off at gunpoint if a and b didn't pay c for the privilege? This type of reasoning, questioning the nature of rights and the source of authority, is the cornerstone of classic liberalism during the Age of Enlightenment. Those philosophers debated it at length. Here, I just want to find if the liberal "intellectuals" have actually thought it through and come up with a better, more evolved explanation than they did 300 years ago. Or, if today's liberals never even paid any thought to it all and don't even know what the arguments were about the origin of rights, indicating this is one way we've actually gone backwards these past few centuries.

Read, for example, the Federalist papers, where libertarian (aka classic liberal) politicians like Thomas Jefferson debated these issues with other pro-big-government politicians, like Alexander Hamilton. When Jefferson would pose similar questions to mine (since these questions didn't originate with me), Hamilton would address them in a civil manner, countering with his own logic and reason. Today, it's a different matter. Politicians just call each other names. And when I post these questions that luminaries like Thomas Jefferson first posed, today's pro-big-government defenders rebuttal is simply to call me a "fucking cunt" for even asking.
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19-05-2014, 10:06 PM
RE: Any liberals capable of defending income tax laws?
(19-05-2014 09:52 PM)Im_Ryan Wrote:  I'm sorry, I cannot continue this. I'm not wasting any more time, I honestly tried.

Good day.

All I did in my last post was ask you questions. Are you saying that whatever answers you could provide are a waste of time? No good can come from your answers? Don't they say there are no bad questions, only bad answers? And if questions are posed which are relevant and on-topic, but you cannot answer, doesn't that suggest the questions are probably good? Please, share your knowledge and opinion, and let me know how you'd respond to my counter questions.

Besides, surely it's in nobody interest if I get even more smug and confident in my beliefs. If you run away when I ask you questions you're only reinforcing my bad behavior, giving me more incentive to keep throwing out more questions that liberals can't answer. Smile
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19-05-2014, 10:08 PM
Any liberals capable of defending income tax laws?
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“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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19-05-2014, 10:10 PM
Any liberals capable of defending income tax laws?
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“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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19-05-2014, 10:19 PM
RE: Any liberals capable of defending income tax laws?
(19-05-2014 10:06 PM)frankksj Wrote:  
(19-05-2014 09:52 PM)Im_Ryan Wrote:  I'm sorry, I cannot continue this. I'm not wasting any more time, I honestly tried.

Good day.

All I did in my last post was ask you questions. Are you saying that whatever answers you could provide are a waste of time? No good can come from your answers? Don't they say there are no bad questions, only bad answers? And if questions are posed which are relevant and on-topic, but you cannot answer, doesn't that suggest the questions are probably good? Please, share your knowledge and opinion, and let me know how you'd respond to my counter questions.

Besides, surely it's in nobody interest if I get even more smug and confident in my beliefs. If you run away when I ask you questions you're only reinforcing my bad behavior, giving me more incentive to keep throwing out more questions that liberals can't answer. Smile

I say there are no bad questions, only stupid people. The fact is you cannot come up with a single example of your proposed hypothetical questions, you cannot read a simple document, you are disingenuous while asking questions, you've misquoted me in your last reply to me (final straw) and you come off as an arrogant prick.
Anything I say is wasted on you. I literally fucking color coded the damn thing for you and you still don't get it. I'm not even a fucking liberal you moron! There's nothing left that I can possibly do except insult your dumbass. So I figured it was time to go.

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