Anybody get this argument?
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28-02-2014, 08:31 AM
Anybody get this argument?
My wife was raised in a religious environment similar to my own upbringing, Catholic dogma and ritual. We had a mild debate over theology the other day, and she said something that made me shake my head in disbelief. "Atheism does not make any sense because Atheists don't believe in any higher being than themselves. Its a very narcissistic and almost psychopathic belief system, leaving no room for morality or respect for others." As hard as I tried, I could not help but chuckle at this, which made her very angry. After I calmed her down and reassured her that I was not laughing AT her, but merely laughing because I had heard this argument plenty of times before. My answer to this argument was this: Atheists don't believe in a god, or a theory of intelligent creation. Atheists believe in what is scientifically provable. But the idea that we would not believe in anything more powerful than humanity is asinine. Put an Atheist in a room with a Kodiak bear and see which one comes out.

I know that wasn't her point. Her point centered more on the creation side. But science has plenty of evidence showing how life came to be.

Any thoughts on this matter?
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28-02-2014, 08:58 AM
RE: Anybody get this argument?
First she needs to find out what is psychopathy and narcissism.


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28-02-2014, 09:04 AM
RE: Anybody get this argument?
We aren't the ones claiming the universe revolves around us. That's religion, we're the ones preaching true humility.

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28-02-2014, 09:31 AM
RE: Anybody get this argument?
Just tell her how our sense of morality evolved along with everything else.

Atheism is the only way to truly be free from sin.
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28-02-2014, 08:45 PM
RE: Anybody get this argument?
(28-02-2014 08:31 AM)retroviral Wrote:  Any thoughts on this matter?
Never discuss religion with a theist you live with.

Sapere aude
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03-03-2014, 12:50 AM
RE: Anybody get this argument?
Yes, I get this often. It stems from ignorance of what it is to be an atheist. These people believe that God is the standard and the setter of standards, and without him, one cannot have morality or humility or any of the other attributes which allow us to live in a civilized society.

Such individuals need to be educated on what it means to be an atheist. Instead of attacking your position (by definition, it was an attack, though I'm sure she lacked malice), she needs to be willing to listen to and consider your view. One would expect this from a loving wife.

Through profound pain comes profound knowledge.
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03-03-2014, 08:53 AM
RE: Anybody get this argument?
Usually when I see this, it's done either to vilify atheists so the theists can feel better about themselves, or to set up an easy excuse to dismiss something an atheist is saying. There's no actual basis for the claim, but the conclusion is super-convenient for them, so they keep saying it.
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05-03-2014, 08:07 PM
RE: Anybody get this argument?
(28-02-2014 08:45 PM)f stop Wrote:  
(28-02-2014 08:31 AM)retroviral Wrote:  Any thoughts on this matter?
Never discuss religion with a theist you live with.

Oh, I often have very deep philosophical discussions with my wife on many subjects, religion being just one. She has an extremely open mind and is not judgemental. If anything, her religious views are an ingrained result of her upbringing, not a true reflection of her own views. She is one of the first people to acknowledge that fact. So there is no danger in talking God/lessness with her.

Anyhow, the carryover from her Catholic upbringing seems to me to be a telling indicator of the level of brainwashing (for lack of a more PC term) that the church subjects people to.
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05-03-2014, 08:10 PM
RE: Anybody get this argument?
(03-03-2014 08:53 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Usually when I see this, it's done either to vilify atheists so the theists can feel better about themselves, or to set up an easy excuse to dismiss something an atheist is saying. There's no actual basis for the claim, but the conclusion is super-convenient for them, so they keep saying it.

Much the same way they fall on the crutch of "I don't NEED any PROOF, I have FAITH!"

It is a flawed logic that is used not only to derail conversations as they are taking place, but also to stem any flow of rational thought before it even takes place. Seems almost like when little kids on a playground try to puff up to intimidate each other.
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06-03-2014, 12:44 AM
RE: Anybody get this argument?
What's with religious people and thinking if a world view is negative in some way it's automatically invalidated? "Atheism does not make any sense because Atheists don't believe in any higher being than themselves. Its a very narcissistic and almost psychopathic belief system, leaving no room for morality or respect for others"? That's not not making sense, that's not being pleasant. Sometimes, the world just does that.

The idea in general is bull, of course, but come on, what convinced these people life must always be nice?
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