Anyone care to help me refute this?
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23-04-2014, 06:09 PM (This post was last modified: 23-04-2014 07:08 PM by John.)
RE: Anyone care to help me refute this?
The problem with these Sunday Philosophers' Manifestos is that they inevitably and unremarkably turn out to be based on something that is either

(1) unsupported or tentative, or
(2) batshit crazy and against something that actually is supported.

It only gets worse when there's a multitude of these issues which steadily pile up in the flow of the argument and ultimately render any conclusions utterly invalid. Here is the opening paragraph of his argument (emphasis added):

Quote:Let us get definitions out of the way: micro vs macro evolution from what I have read concludes that micro is the adaptive change to nature, which makes perfect sense to me. Animals acquire thicker fur/skin for cold climates, longer/stronger claws for digging. A martial artist hits bricks every day his bone structure strengthens and that alters his genetics slightly enough to pass to his offspring to have stronger bones. Macro-evolution: one species changing to a completely different species, “Darwin’s Change of Kinds.” This does not make sense to me; this is what we are debating.

At this point there is absolutely zero reason to continue to read his paper, other than as a case study of conclusions drawn from unwarranted premises. He admits to having read something that made sense to him, paraphrases the content of his source, and, as it turns out, what he paraphrases falls into category (2) - batshit crazy BS which contradicts established facts (punching a wall does not change your passed on genome in any way; unless you punch it with your balls and the wall is lethaly radioactive, or something equally absurd). In addition, although he doesn't clarify in this paragraph, his wording of "species changing to a completely different species" reminds me alarmingly of the type of language you'd hear from someone like Ray Comfort - which is not to say that the author of this paper necessarily expects evolution to result in crocoducks and what not, but it is a red flag nontheless.

The way to have progress in such situations is not to write an essay of several pages when it's not clear that both sides agree on the premises as outlaid in the opening statement. This will only lead into an exchange where each post is longer than the previous one since it usually takes up more space to debunk stuff than it takes to assert it. And good luck with that if the first post is a 5 page essay. The sensible way to go about is to find common ground to begin with, which in this case would mean that I'd ask for clarification on the opening paragraph, and why he thinks it is sensible what he describes as microevolution there.

Τί ἐστιν ἀλήθεια?
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23-04-2014, 07:01 PM
RE: Anyone care to help me refute this?
(23-04-2014 10:54 AM)TheInsignificantAtheist Wrote:  A theist that I know claims to have read a lot about evolution and science, but says he is convinced that there's no such thing as macro-evolution (but he believes in micro-evolution). He's written up some paper on it and handed it to a professor to refute, who never got back to him. He gave it to me to refute, but I don't feel qualified to do so. It is his feeling that, since nobody has responded to his paper, it must mean he is right.

I was wondering if anyone here would like to read and respond to it, even if it's only so much as making notes in the margins (perhaps using MS Word's "review" tab) of sources or theories that disprove his paper.

The paper is attached to this post.
Thank you very much!

I will have an altered form of the word document done soon for your, and the forums, critique.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
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23-04-2014, 08:39 PM
RE: Anyone care to help me refute this?
John. Your post. Genius.

Punching radioactive walls with one's balls. Pure brilliance. The mental images I'm getting! zomg! lol!
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23-04-2014, 10:16 PM
RE: Anyone care to help me refute this?
(23-04-2014 03:57 PM)Mathilda Wrote:  
(23-04-2014 03:50 PM)TheInsignificantAtheist Wrote:  Thank you very much, Mathilda! I was getting overwhelmed with terms and such that I'm not familiar with, and I'm not very good at responding to a debate-like situation anyway.

No problem. The essay relied upon the reader not knowing the answers to the questions it posed. Many of those questions are active research areas in science.

I only briefly replied to each point so I can provide further clarification if I have been vague or ambiguous.

I haven't downloaded the file, as I have no PDF reader on this tablet...

But I'm guessing from this that the entire article was basically one big straw man argument...

Shit, piss, fuck, cunt, cocksucker, motherfucker, tits... - George Carlin.
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23-04-2014, 10:41 PM (This post was last modified: 24-04-2014 03:23 AM by Free Thought.)
RE: Anyone care to help me refute this?
Well, it's finally done.

At least three hours of my life down the drain, but it's not like I was doing anything with it anyway.

Hopefully it'll pass the TTA Forum Peer Review.
Be merciful...


Attached File(s)
.docx  evolution Free Response.docx (Size: 289.45 KB / Downloads: 9)

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
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24-04-2014, 02:18 AM
RE: Anyone care to help me refute this?
(23-04-2014 10:41 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  Well, it's finally done.

At least three hours of my life down the drain, but it's not like I was doing anything with it anyway.

Hopefully it'll pass the TTA Forum Peer Review.
Be merciful...

Are you sure you didn't post the original version? I opened it in Libre office and couldn't see any difference.
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24-04-2014, 02:24 AM
RE: Anyone care to help me refute this?
(24-04-2014 02:18 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  
(23-04-2014 10:41 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  Well, it's finally done.

At least three hours of my life down the drain, but it's not like I was doing anything with it anyway.

Hopefully it'll pass the TTA Forum Peer Review.
Be merciful...

Are you sure you didn't post the original version? I opened it in Libre office and couldn't see any difference.

Yeah, I did it right; my part starts at the second page in Comic Sans font. It works in Word for me when I re-downloaded it, but just to be sure, I replaced it.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
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24-04-2014, 02:38 AM
RE: Anyone care to help me refute this?
Why is everyone doing this kid's homework???


Oh, by the way, I have some swampland I wish to sell.
Smartass

Recently suffered loss of intelligence. Had little to begin with! I should not miss it.
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24-04-2014, 02:40 AM
RE: Anyone care to help me refute this?
(24-04-2014 02:38 AM)Banjo Wrote:  Why is everyone doing this kid's homework???


Oh, by the way, I have some swampland I wish to sell.
Smartass

I had nothing better to do than to try to flex my head-sponge a little bit.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
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24-04-2014, 02:46 AM (This post was last modified: 24-04-2014 03:03 AM by Mathilda.)
RE: Anyone care to help me refute this?
(24-04-2014 02:24 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  Yeah, I did it right; my part starts at the second page in Comic Sans font. It works in Word for me when I re-downloaded it, but just to be sure, I replaced it.


I see it now. It's all the same font in libre office (not surprisingly). It's never that compatible.

EDIT: Read it. Good response! I was basically skimming the document by the time he got down to the tired argument about life violating the second law of thermodynamics. Glad you spotted it.
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