Anyone care to help me refute this?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
25-04-2014, 10:57 AM
RE: Anyone care to help me refute this?
Voilà!

[Image: Cuppaporch.jpg]

Τί ἐστιν ἀλήθεια?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes John's post
25-04-2014, 11:36 AM
RE: Anyone care to help me refute this?
Big GrinBowing
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-04-2014, 11:42 AM
RE: Anyone care to help me refute this?
The biggest issue is that creationists love to split "macro" and "micro" when they are the same thing. Some creatures capable of multiplying at rapid rates will simply do it faster over generations than creatures who have lifespans of 50-100 years.

So of course, we enter into this "well I'm fine with micro evolution. But macro is ridiculous." I feel your pain, I have a very religious friend who is a YEC and doesn't believe in evolution. I don't think he's really figured it out that I'm an atheist but he knows I don't share his viewpoint. We talk about things here and there and I try and toss little things his way...

"Well god created the universe, not the big bang."
me "Sure well, what if god created the big bang? How would you know the difference?"

I saw his gears turning a little after that one. Haven't heard back from him yet. I like to bring up little points here and there. Something that doesn't say, "Your viewpoint is dumb." but rather, "Why specifically hold onto this viewpoint, if you could hold onto this viewpoint, in which you don't need to toss away the empirical understanding of the world around you."

I like to toss little mental ninja stars at people to get their critical thinking gears turning. We'll see how it goes. Helping people think is not an overnight process. He's a pretty good friend and an overall good guy but sometimes his viewpoints on things are infuriating.

If we're all made of the same atoms and energy the rest of the universe is comprised of, then we too are parts of the universe. This leads us to the entertainment which is debate. The best part is where the universe, having come into consciousness, cannot agree on how it came to be in the first place. Laughat
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Logisch's post
25-04-2014, 12:06 PM (This post was last modified: 25-04-2014 12:14 PM by Charis.)
RE: Anyone care to help me refute this?
Some key things that will come into play are their presuppositions on certain things. Also, watch out for the word "presupposition" too, since they'll throw it at an atheist saying that we just come to the table with certain "presuppositions" that are no better and no more accurate than theirs and are taken on faith just as much as theirs.

But anywho, some of their presuppositions and how they affect their arguments:

1.A literal interpretation of Biblical geneology, etc, dating all of matter to 6000-10,000 years old: Naturally, given this time frame, they aren't going to accept "macro-evolution," because 6000-10,000 years cannot very well accomodate evolution to the extent that we often refer to it as. YEC's often call this "molecules-to-man evolution," "From the goo, to the zoo, to you" etc. They will only recognize the small changes that 6000-10000 years can account for, which would very likely only fall under "micro-evolution." Convenient, that.

2. Apparently, the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics pretty much applies in the same way everywhere all the time. And overrides every other law...? I guess...?
I realize that this statement runs the risk of being an unintentional strawman argument, but if this is a strawman, then AiG should probably clarify to EVERYBODY ELSE that this is not really the position they hold, because they have a really funny way of showing it.
So what does this presupposition mean to your conversation with a YEC? It means that they will believe our genes and the genes of living things in general are in a state of decline. It means they will be hard-pressed to say that more highly-organized or more complex organisms can possibly come about without intelligent intervention in the process of entropy. It means your YEC friend will likely view all of the species on the Ark as a sort of set of "master races" that the species of today have decended from (and deteriorated from, genetically).
I kinda wonder if they think the law of gravity applies to everything, everywhere, all the time.... hmmm.... I wonder if any OTHER laws of physics might come into play that might allow for flight. No, no can't be. Because gravity. See? GRAVITY!!!

3. Dating Methods are grossly flawed. Have fun with their petrified cowboy boots, trees going through rock layers, Carbon Dating arguments, science conspiracy theories, etc. *salutes* Here: http://www.answersingenesis.org/search/?...ng+methods
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Charis's post
25-04-2014, 04:51 PM
RE: Anyone care to help me refute this?
(25-04-2014 11:42 AM)Logisch Wrote:  So of course, we enter into this "well I'm fine with micro evolution. But macro is ridiculous." I feel your pain, I have a very religious friend who is a YEC and doesn't believe in evolution. I don't think he's really figured it out that I'm an atheist but he knows I don't share his viewpoint. We talk about things here and there and I try and toss little things his way...

(25-04-2014 11:42 AM)Logisch Wrote:  I like to toss little mental ninja stars at people to get their critical thinking gears turning. We'll see how it goes. Helping people think is not an overnight process. He's a pretty good friend and an overall good guy but sometimes his viewpoints on things are infuriating.


It probably helps that you haven't come out to him as an atheist otherwise he might just dismiss everything you say without thinking it through properly.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: