Anyone catch the latest episode of 'The Magic Sandwich Show'?
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18-04-2012, 02:08 PM
Anyone catch the latest episode of 'The Magic Sandwich Show'?
April 12, 2012.

As of this post, only the first 2 parts have been posted. Link to part 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T06j5SApe...Ng9nDoRb4=

I became a bit annoyed with Aron in the second part, which I may brush off because he seems ill.

I'd just like to hear peoples opinions or responses to what was being said. Or how you may have rephrased certain pieces.
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18-04-2012, 11:47 PM
RE: Anyone catch the latest episode of 'The Magic Sandwich Show'?
At the time of my posting, parts 1 through 5 have been uploaded and I believe a 6th or even 7th will be uploaded.

Concerning AronRa: Yes, at times his temper got the best of him, and his soar throat made it even harder to listen to.

The biggest thing I got out of watching these videos is that this wasn't a debate. It was Sye ad Eric making assertions and then being dismissive to the panel and callers. And now that I think about it, Sye was just plain rude and obnoxious. Yes, Aron and Thunder would occasionally talk over him to rebut a point, but Sye constantly talked over everyone, the callers and the host included. Concordance made many well formed points and asked very fair questions in an effort to start a debate, but those questions were dismissed every time and the topic was changed. Also, towards the end when Thunder began to bring up "The Ghost that Never Lies" Sye couldn't understand his mockery and kept asserting Thunder literally gave up Atheist to believe in this ghost... him jumping to conclusions like that and putting words in others mouths really bothered me...

As far as rephrasing certain pieces, at one point the question was asked by Sye I believe if the caller could be wrong in absolutely everything they knew and the caller replied with a no. If it was me, I would have mentioned that I could not be wrong in knowing that I existed. Even if we do live in the Matrix, even if I am not human but an AI, even if something controlled my thoughts... I know I exist because I think therefore I am.

"The most valuable possession you can own is an open heart. The most powerful weapon you can be is an instrument of peace." -- Carlos Santana
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19-04-2012, 07:02 AM
RE: Anyone catch the latest episode of 'The Magic Sandwich Show'?
G'day

I'm currently in debate with an presupposition apologist.
I'm a level headed guy and almost never loose my temper. I love debates but these guys are infuriating. They assert that we all know God exist "God has written it on your heart" . To use logic in an argument concedes the point as God has given us logic. It is revealed to us in his book. Why not any other book I don't know. if question the book they say you can't because question the book you have to use logic and that needs God and thus proof of God.

Circular argument ! Infuriating
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19-04-2012, 07:17 AM (This post was last modified: 25-04-2012 11:38 AM by arbmouser.)
RE: Anyone catch the latest episode of 'The Magic Sandwich Show'?
I liked the first part and thought the show was going well until part 2. For a while Eric seemed to let Sye make a fool of himself, but eventually everything seemed to get out of hand. I blame the guests for having such an unreasonable argument. The presupposition position makes no sense to me, because in order for it to work one must assume the existence of a god, which of course is the subject of debate. You can dumb down the argument to this:

Person 1: "Does god exist, and how do you know?"

Person 2: "For argument's sake, let us say for a moment he does..."

Person 1: "Okay..."

Person 2: "Case closed."
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19-04-2012, 05:04 PM (This post was last modified: 19-04-2012 05:25 PM by lightninlives.)
RE: Anyone catch the latest episode of 'The Magic Sandwich Show'?
Here's part 6 in case anyone is interested. The first 5 were hilarious, so I'm pumped to listen to this sixth installment:
http://youtu.be/fIOccBSlWYc

Just watched it (Part 6). It's pretty embarrassing.

Sye and Hovind both admitted that they wouldn't be willing to discuss/debate elements of the bible unless the other participants first accepted it as true. And as if that wasn't sad enough, Sye then followed up by saying that the other reason he wouldn't do it is because he didn't like how atheists on YouTube make fun of his and Hovind's stance.

It's an instance face-palm classic!

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19-04-2012, 08:45 PM (This post was last modified: 19-04-2012 09:15 PM by Vipa.)
RE: Anyone catch the latest episode of 'The Magic Sandwich Show'?
I totally understand AronRa... but there was no reason to get loud.

They should have simply kicked both of em out of the show right after they phrased their position.
This has got to be the silliest kindergarten argument I've ever heard. Any further intellectual interaction is futile with someone who reaches this state of degeneration:
"I know for certain that god exists because he has revealed this knowledge (to everyone) in a way that it's possible to know for certain that he exists"
"Since you said you can't know anything for certain it is pointless to discuss anything with you"
"You can't use logic without god"
Or my personal favorite: "And now you try to trick me into a logical conversation" Sye, MSS 15 April Part 2 15:38 .........

And those gotcha arguments all the time... sure I use "gotcha" arguments for fun too, but at least I know they are of no use beyond that.
In Sye's and Hovind's case it's not even fun anymore because their whole debate is, as arbmouser said. a gotcha-overkill.
They don't understand that people can learn from errors and they won't accept that people can learn from errors because their lovely little world-view about how easy it is to "refute" atheism would break the very second they would accept someone could change his/her mind about a topic. (Because the gotcha argument wouldn't work anymore)
And to top it off they like to think they are infallible like the pope...

Idiocracy seems scarily real all of a sudden...

Although... at least their mental state establishes by default an animal ancestry. Otherwise a human being couldn't get this low (Atavisms) - ultimate proof of evolution! Hobo
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25-04-2012, 08:31 AM
RE: Anyone catch the latest episode of 'The Magic Sandwich Show'?
I listened to it last night, and found Thunderfoot's "Ghost That Never Lies" argument especially powerful. If any argument can become the knock-out punch against presup's, I think this one is it.

Too bad Sly Tenbruggencate was able to wiggle out of it by asking "Is that really your position?" and waiting for the subject to change after the ensuing screaming and head-banging from all sides. Here's how I would have clinched it...

Atheist: The Ghost That Never Lies has revealed it to me, there is no god!

Sly: Is that really your position?

Atheist: YES.

Sly: Really? / Then you're not an atheist / whatever.

Atheist: Yes, really. The GTNL told me there is no god, and I am telling you He is for real!

Come on, Sly. What does that make me?

Say it, Sly. Call me a liar or a deluded fool. I dare you.

Because whatever you call for my claims about the Ghost that never lies, I or any observer has exactly the same rationale for calling you the same. And thus, you can reasonably be dismissed as a fraud or a moron. The end. *hangs up the phone*

They'll learn to like it someday.
- Ludwig van Beethoven
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25-04-2012, 09:17 AM
RE: Anyone catch the latest episode of 'The Magic Sandwich Show'?
(19-04-2012 07:02 AM)isizinyo Wrote:  G'day

I'm currently in debate with an presupposition apologist.
I'm a level headed guy and almost never loose my temper. I love debates but these guys are infuriating. They assert that we all know God exist "God has written it on your heart" . To use logic in an argument concedes the point as God has given us logic. It is revealed to us in his book. Why not any other book I don't know. if question the book they say you can't because question the book you have to use logic and that needs God and thus proof of God.

Circular argument ! Infuriating
Of course, circular arguments are the only reason theists have lasted as long as they have. I mean they have no REAL proof so they HAVE to result to circular arguments to backup their entire life beliefs. It's just easier to result to circular self proving arguments then to accept the cold raw facts presented in front of them which may make their entire life's believes wrong.

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