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18-02-2014, 09:01 PM
RE: Anyone else?
(18-02-2014 08:25 PM)Drich Wrote:  
(18-02-2014 05:16 PM)Im_Ryan Wrote:  Yes I remember hearing that sermon as a kid. Fair enough.
But does love necessarily indicate a need?

Have you ever loved or been loved to the point of need? There is an element that binds all forms of love. That is need. A need to love and to be loved that we all share. Agape is the purest most complete form of this love. Once you experience it for even the briefest of moments you will understand that we have been created to experience and live in this love. Just as the body needs to eat out souls need this love.

Yes, actually.
Also, I got over it. Took a while yes, but that "need" you feel is just chemicals in your brain. It's all well understood and documented. You can get over that. I was once a Christian, took me 6 years to get over it. But I did. I'm here, and well, I'm actually honestly happier.
It's like being in a controlling relationship, you feel like you need it, but when it goes away you're better off.

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18-02-2014, 09:30 PM
RE: Anyone else?
(18-02-2014 09:01 PM)Im_Ryan Wrote:  
(18-02-2014 08:25 PM)Drich Wrote:  Have you ever loved or been loved to the point of need? There is an element that binds all forms of love. That is need. A need to love and to be loved that we all share. Agape is the purest most complete form of this love. Once you experience it for even the briefest of moments you will understand that we have been created to experience and live in this love. Just as the body needs to eat out souls need this love.

Yes, actually.
Also, I got over it. Took a while yes, but that "need" you feel is just chemicals in your brain. It's all well understood and documented. You can get over that. I was once a Christian, took me 6 years to get over it. But I did. I'm here, and well, I'm actually honestly happier.
It's like being in a controlling relationship, you feel like you need it, but when it goes away you're better off.
Actually biblical Christianity is the opposite of control. It is true freedom. It is freedom from the law, freedom from sin freedom from everything but the purest form of worship and love. If your experience of Christianity was anything less, then I would take another look at what you were told Christianity to be.

The Index: A/S/K Ask Seek Knock as outlined by Luke 11:5-13
Ot Old testament
Nt New testament
H/S Holy Spirit

If you want to ask me a question feel free to Pm me or E/M me. I will not speak of it to anyone.
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18-02-2014, 09:36 PM
RE: Anyone else?
(18-02-2014 09:30 PM)Drich Wrote:  
(18-02-2014 09:01 PM)Im_Ryan Wrote:  Yes, actually.
Also, I got over it. Took a while yes, but that "need" you feel is just chemicals in your brain. It's all well understood and documented. You can get over that. I was once a Christian, took me 6 years to get over it. But I did. I'm here, and well, I'm actually honestly happier.
It's like being in a controlling relationship, you feel like you need it, but when it goes away you're better off.
Actually biblical Christianity is the opposite of control. It is true freedom. It is freedom from the law, freedom from sin freedom from everything but the purest form of worship and love. If your experience of Christianity was anything less, then I would take another look at what you were told Christianity to be.

I have a serious question: have you honestly read the bible in it's entirety? I'm actually curious.

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18-02-2014, 09:47 PM
RE: Anyone else?
Thread moved, the boxing ring is only for 1:1 debate. Not a place for taking all comers. When you find someone you want to debate ask them in the boxing ring, or send them a pm.

Moving thread to Atheism/Theism forum.


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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18-02-2014, 10:18 PM
RE: Anyone else?
(18-02-2014 09:36 PM)Im_Ryan Wrote:  
(18-02-2014 09:30 PM)Drich Wrote:  Actually biblical Christianity is the opposite of control. It is true freedom. It is freedom from the law, freedom from sin freedom from everything but the purest form of worship and love. If your experience of Christianity was anything less, then I would take another look at what you were told Christianity to be.

I have a serious question: have you honestly read the bible in it's entirety? I'm actually curious.

From start to finish no. I have never read the bible as one reads a regular book.

However I have read the bible in its entirety. There are reading plans that help chop up some of the more brutal books where this one beget that one or endless rules of OT law, and the pair it with interesting stories or examples of Israel breaking the rules and they show the resulting consequence.

I have gone once through the bible in that way. I have also informally studied under a doctor of theology a couple times a week for two years in a small group setting. There I learned how to look up passages in Greek and Hebrew. Then went on to study under my best friend's dad who was going to school at the time to receive his doctorate in theology as well. He help refined my ability to research and rightly divide God's word. He also gave me the reference material (my first reference books.) that was 17 or 18 years ago.
As I said I've been through the whole bible at least once. But through the NT maybe a dozen times a year minus some of the less read books like Philemon or revelation. Some of the OT books get more play than others as well. Genesis, judges, kings, job (where you guys tend to get most of your smightful God verses.) more so then books like psalms or the books of the minor prophets.

My weakness is in the actual memorization of a specific passage (BCV), but I do know what the bible says, and I can paraphrase just about all of the major stories or precepts, and usually get you with in a chapter or two if I have a given principle.

All of that said I do offer to be a bible reading/accountability partner for just about anyone who wants to spend a year reading the bible with me. There are reading plans that can take us through the whole thing in a year, and we can have a discussion about the days material. One thing I have learned is no matter how many times I have been over something there is always tons more to learn. You can be reading something you have read literally a thousand times and something clicks and the passage takes on a whole new meaning.

Like the whole john 3:16 thing I brought up. I must have read that 1000 times if I read it once, and in an arguement about God's unconditional love the person I was speaking with threw that passage at me and I saw a big fat condition right in the middle of that verse that changed my whole biblical world view.

I am always ready to read and research anything that comes up. Someone a month or two ago ask some trivial thing about the life of job, and I was not sure so I took my lunch period and reread the book just so I could answer a yes or no question with confidence.

Sunday someone asked me in a class I was attending about the roman seals placed on the tomb of Jesus. I explained the historical aspect of what this seal was and what it meant. Then a lady asked me if the seal was on the tomb then how did the two marrys think they were going to access the body of Christ. Off the cuff I said the guards were sent their for the three days the Pharisees were concerned over per the prophesies in Isaiah. Something did not feel right then I reread all 4 gospels to come up with a more accurate answer in that according to scripture they were not aware of the guards. This was very appearent because they went to the tomb wondering how they were going to move the stone. If they knew of the guards and the empirical seal they would have gone to the temple for authorization first, as per their rights to prep the body for burial.

I take all of this very seriously, and if I believe there is the slightest chance that an honest question is being asked I will do everything I can to provide an accurate answer.

The Index: A/S/K Ask Seek Knock as outlined by Luke 11:5-13
Ot Old testament
Nt New testament
H/S Holy Spirit

If you want to ask me a question feel free to Pm me or E/M me. I will not speak of it to anyone.
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18-02-2014, 10:32 PM
RE: Anyone else?
I have a question for you; do you think Christianity is any more believable than Pinocchio?

...
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18-02-2014, 10:44 PM
RE: Anyone else?
Try reading it like a book. Honestly, it's a whole new experience.
You can nit pick and read certain chapters regarding a certain subject(s), but that does nothing for you. You've said so in your post, "to rightly divide God's word". I understand the concept of attempting to understand it, but that is not how it is written.
You don't read Harry Potter in sections do you? Even the really weird magical crap that if you're not a total harry potter nerd you won't get (trust me, I'm not a fan). No, you read the thing from start to finish and only then will you get a real understanding.
Personally, I have done both. I have studied the Bible like you claim, but I have also just read it. Why? It was a challenge from my father when started to get really good at the whole Christianity thing. After I read it, that was when I really started to question things, and eventually become an atheist (of course, not so cut and dry, but for sake of simplicity I'll leave it at that).

So here's a challenge for you, if an atheist has done it, why haven't you? Read the Bible from start to finish. No nit picking, chapter selection, etc. Read it like you would a book.

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18-02-2014, 10:51 PM
RE: Anyone else?
(18-02-2014 12:51 PM)Drich Wrote:  I guess the boxing match between UK and I is now over. I was wondering if anyone else would like to go one on one? I'm not looking to call anyone out specifically. I just like this particular format.

Here's how I've seen this work on other forums. You post a topic you want to debate. You and any potential takers then communicate via PM until you come to agreement on the details of the topic, and once both parties are happy, you contact a mod to lock everyone out except the two of you, Typically then, you present an opening argument, and then your opponent does the same. At that point, the rules kick in.

Some forums also have a peanut gallery for everyone else to chat in about the debate as it progresses.

Softly, softly, catchee monkey.
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18-02-2014, 11:04 PM
RE: Anyone else?
(18-02-2014 10:51 PM)toadaly Wrote:  
(18-02-2014 12:51 PM)Drich Wrote:  I guess the boxing match between UK and I is now over. I was wondering if anyone else would like to go one on one? I'm not looking to call anyone out specifically. I just like this particular format.

Here's how I've seen this work on other forums. You post a topic you want to debate. You and any potential takers then communicate via PM until you come to agreement on the details of the topic, and once both parties are happy, you contact a mod to lock everyone out except the two of you, Typically then, you present an opening argument, and then your opponent does the same. At that point, the rules kick in.

Some forums also have a peanut gallery for everyone else to chat in about the debate as it progresses.

We use more of the honor system. The debate, once established, is between two people. We can't lock others out of the boxing ring threads, but we do delete posts from others and when the debate ends we close the thread.

The Melee or this area are for group debate and/or discussions.

Bucky began a thread to discuss the current debate.


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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18-02-2014, 11:35 PM
RE: Anyone else?
Drich, I am sorry to say this, but I had to let go of a lot of things, so that the conversation doesn't dissolve in replies that span multiple pages. And I only warned you when I thought that it was getting out of hand. Maybe you should try to be more self-critical?

People on this forum think you have no humility, because you seem to be very convinced of yourself even though the general impression is that you do a lot of mistakes.

I am sorry to say this, but this is honest feed-back. Do with it as you like.

Fun "paradox": The higher the selection pressure, the slower evolution takes place.
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