Anyone ever stop to think...
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
29-05-2014, 05:06 PM (This post was last modified: 29-05-2014 06:09 PM by WindyCityJazz.)
RE: Anyone ever stop to think...
(29-05-2014 01:48 PM)BlackMason Wrote:  So I've been doing a little thinking about all this stuff. I got to a point of thinking what's the point? What's the point of this whole atheism/theism thing. As atheists, most of us carry an air of arrogance like you see in the matrix. The ones that know what's going on that is.

It seems all rather theoretical. I don't see any real life advantage being an atheist. We're not much better off than theists. All we do as atheists is argue. Shit. Is that it?

Is it really so bad being a theist? You believe in god, big deal so what? I'm talking mainly about those that were not abused in the name of religion. But as compared to the "regular" theist, what advantage do we have? Does this "advantage" warrant the attitude that we treat theists with?

Yeah I get that theists pose a threat to the education system to some degree. So as atheists we gotta fight to preserve the integrity of education. The average theist eats, sleeps and shits the same way we do. So what if they say a prayer before that meal or when they sleep? They're just as capable as any atheist.

I don't think of theists as being any different than me, other than the obvious difference when it comes to religion. You're stereotyping all atheists as having this attitude, yet I have never come across an atheist that thinks of theists as being any different than an atheist in their everyday life.

The assumption that all atheists "carry an air of arrogance" is a stereotype in itself. You're slagging atheists with the claim that all of us go around stereotyping all theists, then turning around and doing the same thing to atheists. I find that to be pretty hypocritical.

I mostly stay away from religious discussions when the subject comes up. If a theist wants to discuss the issue with me, then I am willing to have a friendly debate with anyone, so long as it can be a civil debate and not turn into a match of slinging insults. Now, when it gets to a point where a theist is trying to convince me that I need to conform to THEIR BELIEFS, that's when I'm going to tell them exactly what I think and call them out on their hypocritical bullshit.

The whole premise of religion ("I was brought up to believe in the RIGHT religion, and all the people of other faiths are believing in the WRONG religion!") is incredibly arrogant. It assumes that they are the special ones, and all others who do not share their faith are expendables. I have seen a lot of heartless bullshit come out of the mouths of religious people, especially when tragic events happen. I can't count the number of times that I have seen religious people use horrific events like the tsunami that hit Indonesia, Hurricane Katrina, and the Sandy Hook school massacre as opportunities to tell people that these events are occurring due to people not following their religious beliefs. I've never seen an atheist say "See how all those people got killed! They're being punished because they aren't atheists!"

We do need to stand up to religion when it infringes on the rights of people. I'm not going to sit there and allow theists to deny the right of marriage to gays, or to have government condoning them pushing their beliefs on everybody else in our society.

You come across as saying that theists should be free of criticism from atheists, because atheists that do criticize religion are being mean. Theists eat, drink and sleep like the rest of us. They have the right to voice their opinions like the rest of us. However, their opinions are also equally open to criticism, JUST LIKE THE REST OF US! They DO NOT get a free pass!

“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.” - Mark Twain
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like WindyCityJazz's post
29-05-2014, 05:10 PM
RE: Anyone ever stop to think...
I shudder to think of what the world would be like if theism were allowed to run un-checked.
Besides education, imagine the laws that would be passed.
I don't know how an atheist could seriously think about theism and not be bothered by what religions do in the real world.
Facepalm
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like pablo's post
29-05-2014, 06:35 PM
RE: Anyone ever stop to think...
(29-05-2014 05:06 PM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  The whole premise of religion ("I was brought up to believe in the RIGHT religion, and all the people of other faiths are believing in the WRONG religion!") is incredibly arrogant. It assumes that they are the special ones, and all others who do not share their faith are expendables.

I'm pretty sure that is not a premise of religion... There are some religious doctrines and some religious people that hold those views, but it is far from every religion, and far from every theist.

IMO the general problem is that people on both sides of the fence (if one can talk of only two sides) are polarising the debate by creating stereotypes based on the other side's extremists and their extreme beliefs.

Personally I think a debate centred around tolerance and intolerance would be much more interesting, and in the end much more fruitful in terms of coming together and actually solving issues. Because let's face it, neither atheists nor theists are going to suddenly disappear in the near future.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Gaest's post
29-05-2014, 07:10 PM
RE: Anyone ever stop to think...
Nobody is making you do anything.


(29-05-2014 01:48 PM)BlackMason Wrote:  So I've been doing a little thinking about all this stuff. I got to a point of thinking what's the point? What's the point of this whole atheism/theism thing. As atheists, most of us carry an air of arrogance like you see in the matrix. The ones that know what's going on that is.

It seems all rather theoretical. I don't see any real life advantage being an atheist. We're not much better off than theists. All we do as atheists is argue. Shit. Is that it?

Is it really so bad being a theist? You believe in god, big deal so what? I'm talking mainly about those that were not abused in the name of religion. But as compared to the "regular" theist, what advantage do we have? Does this "advantage" warrant the attitude that we treat theists with?

Yeah I get that theists pose a threat to the education system to some degree. So as atheists we gotta fight to preserve the integrity of education. The average theist eats, sleeps and shits the same way we do. So what if they say a prayer before that meal or when they sleep? They're just as capable as any atheist.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-05-2014, 07:22 PM
RE: Anyone ever stop to think...
(29-05-2014 06:35 PM)Gaest Wrote:  
(29-05-2014 05:06 PM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  The whole premise of religion ("I was brought up to believe in the RIGHT religion, and all the people of other faiths are believing in the WRONG religion!") is incredibly arrogant. It assumes that they are the special ones, and all others who do not share their faith are expendables.

I'm pretty sure that is not a premise of religion... There are some religious doctrines and some religious people that hold those views, but it is far from every religion, and far from every theist.

IMO the general problem is that people on both sides of the fence (if one can talk of only two sides) are polarising the debate by creating stereotypes based on the other side's extremists and their extreme beliefs.

Personally I think a debate centred around tolerance and intolerance would be much more interesting, and in the end much more fruitful in terms of coming together and actually solving issues. Because let's face it, neither atheists nor theists are going to suddenly disappear in the near future.

Well, if a person claims their particular religion to be true, then they are also claiming that all others are false. There is no in-between in that argument. Whether they state it implicitly doesn't matter, it's already implied.

“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.” - Mark Twain
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes WindyCityJazz's post
29-05-2014, 07:28 PM
RE: Anyone ever stop to think...
Quote:Because let's face it, neither atheists nor theists are going to suddenly disappear in the near future.


Well that would depend on where one lives.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Banjo's post
29-05-2014, 08:42 PM (This post was last modified: 29-05-2014 10:31 PM by DLJ.)
RE: Anyone ever stop to think...
@BM
Why do we have flood defenses when there are no floods?

Why does a company offer flu shots when no one gets flu?

You can relax. We'll hold the line.

(29-05-2014 03:12 PM)Alex_Leonardo Wrote:  ...
(Only neurochemists or people familiar with neuroscience will get this.)

Patronising much.

One doesn't need specialist knowledge to be a hedonist.
Tongue

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like DLJ's post
29-05-2014, 08:54 PM
RE: Anyone ever stop to think...
I am now starting to lose my interest in the atheist community, and I completely understand your current position.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-05-2014, 09:19 PM
RE: Anyone ever stop to think...
(29-05-2014 01:48 PM)BlackMason Wrote:  So I've been doing a little thinking about all this stuff. I got to a point of thinking what's the point? What's the point of this whole atheism/theism thing. As atheists, most of us carry an air of arrogance like you see in the matrix. The ones that know what's going on that is.

It seems all rather theoretical. I don't see any real life advantage being an atheist. We're not much better off than theists. All we do as atheists is argue. Shit. Is that it?

Is it really so bad being a theist? You believe in god, big deal so what? I'm talking mainly about those that were not abused in the name of religion. But as compared to the "regular" theist, what advantage do we have? Does this "advantage" warrant the attitude that we treat theists with?

Yeah I get that theists pose a threat to the education system to some degree. So as atheists we gotta fight to preserve the integrity of education. The average theist eats, sleeps and shits the same way we do. So what if they say a prayer before that meal or when they sleep? They're just as capable as any atheist.

Are you currently going through some turmoil in your life? Did a close friend or relative die? Did you and your girlfriend/boyfriend break up recently? What's really going on in your life?

You don't have to answer that here. That is the question which first came to mind for me, because it just seems that most of your remarks are a projection of your own feelings, attitudes and perceptions. So, please don't use a broad brush. I don't fit the mold of what you said. Sorry.

I'll revisit this later.....
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-05-2014, 09:34 PM
RE: Anyone ever stop to think...
(29-05-2014 08:54 PM)UndercoverAtheist Wrote:  I am now starting to lose my interest in the atheist community, and I completely understand your current position.


How many have you met?

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: