Apatheism
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19-10-2012, 02:22 AM (This post was last modified: 19-10-2012 02:27 AM by fstratzero.)
RE: Apatheism
(19-10-2012 02:10 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(19-10-2012 01:15 AM)fstratzero Wrote:  And if it's only quality is the ability to unbalance forces in a singularity then why call that god?
Don't ask me, I'm not a deist. Tongue

I will concede that if a deity exists in such a way that we can never discover it then becomes useless to our knowledge.

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19-10-2012, 06:04 AM
RE: Apatheism
I'm quite sure that there are no gods, but it is religion that is the problem.

I'm not apathetic about religion; apoplectic would be more accurate.

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19-10-2012, 06:14 AM (This post was last modified: 19-10-2012 04:46 PM by fstratzero.)
RE: Apatheism
I'm of the opinion that god cannot exist. Since the theologian bases his description of god upon qualities that destroy one another.

Anything else that lies outside the theologians description is not god. Perhaps some kind of ultra powerful being/beings, but certainly with some naturalistic means of coming into existence.

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19-10-2012, 06:18 AM (This post was last modified: 19-10-2012 06:27 AM by fstratzero.)
RE: Apatheism
After all it god is timeless and spaceless, then he never existed any where.

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19-10-2012, 07:23 AM
RE: Apatheism
If there were a god, who says she would want to be worshipped? Worship in churches as I know them is mostly just begging and pleading for nothing important.

Who says she would like to listen to people pleading with her constantly?

If I were a god I would be really annoyed with all the pleading and begging people call prayer... as I am in real life. People who nag and beg and whine and constantly want or need someting are most annoying. The more they do it, the more annoying it gets.

So, if I were to find out somehow that there actually is a god, I strongly doubt I would run around worshipping and praying. Chances are that would just piss her off.

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19-10-2012, 10:01 AM
RE: Apatheism
(18-10-2012 05:57 PM)Vosur Wrote:  Apatheism does not adress the question of whether or not there is an afterlife, merely the question of whether or not there is a god. An Apatheist's answer to the latter question would be "I don't give a damn either way (and I will live my live accordingly)". The existence of hell does not necessarily follow from the existence of god. That being said, if it was proven that heaven and hell exist and that I had to choose between endless torture and eternal bliss, obviously I'd go for the latter one.

Right, I get that. But in your initial post, you said that even if god turned out to be real, you would remain apatheistic.

My contention is that if the god of the Bible turned out to be real and affirmed that everything Christians believe is equally real, including Hell and what you need to do to avoid it, that only an insane person would choose not to bow to the great Yahweh in that imaginary (and nightmarish) situation.

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19-10-2012, 10:12 AM
RE: Apatheism
(19-10-2012 10:01 AM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:  Right, I get that. But in your initial post, you said that even if god turned out to be real, you would remain apatheistic.

My contention is that if the god of the Bible turned out to be real and affirmed that everything Christians believe is equally real, including Hell and what you need to do to avoid it, that only an insane person would choose not to bow to the great Yahweh in that imaginary (and nightmarish) situation.
As far as my scriptual knowledge goes, "hell", as in "a place in the afterlife where non-believers will get tortured forever", does not exist in the original bible. Regardless of that, the truth of the scripture and the existence of the deity are two seperate issues as well.
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19-10-2012, 10:34 AM
RE: Apatheism
Fair enough. We're arguing semantics.

In your case, I would agree - if some god, any god, showed up today, proved his divinity beyond question, and then said something like "you can worship or not, your choice, and there will be no consequences for that decision" then I too would be apatheistic.

But if he had consequences, whether they exist in original scripture or later scripture or simply in prophetic revelations of true believers of the correct church that worships this real god, and if those consequences are anything like eternal bliss vs. eternal torture, or even if the dichotomy is not that polarized but still clearly has a better eternal afterlife for worshippers, then I would take the course of action that ensures the better eternity. Eternity is really long. REALLY long. A few years, the blink of an eternal eye, of towing the line to ensure that really long eternity is a cool as possible, is an insignificant price to pay. Apatheism would not be an option for me.

Now, in the real world, where I feel quite safe and secure that there are no petty sadistic deities waiting to pull the wings off butterflies forever (with me cast in the role of the butterfly), declaring apatheism and boasting that I would remain apatheistic even if faced with conclusive proof of some existing god is really easy, because I feel comfortable that my boasting will never be tested. But I know that if it were tested, my apatheism would go right out the window the moment that real god even hinted that eternal afterlife existed and held variances between worshipers and non-worshipers.

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19-10-2012, 11:19 AM
RE: Apatheism
(19-10-2012 10:34 AM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:  In your case, I would agree - if some god, any god, showed up today, proved his divinity beyond question, and then said something like "you can worship or not, your choice, and there will be no consequences for that decision" then I too would be apatheistic.
Apart from the "getting a choice to choose between A and B"-part, that's what apatheism is about.

(19-10-2012 10:34 AM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:  But if he had consequences, whether they exist in original scripture or later scripture or simply in prophetic revelations of true believers of the correct church that worships this real god, and if those consequences are anything like eternal bliss vs. eternal torture, or even if the dichotomy is not that polarized but still clearly has a better eternal afterlife for worshippers, then I would take the course of action that ensures the better eternity. Eternity is really long. REALLY long. A few years, the blink of an eternal eye, of towing the line to ensure that really long eternity is a cool as possible, is an insignificant price to pay. Apatheism would not be an option for me.
Agreed.

(19-10-2012 10:34 AM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:  Now, in the real world, where I feel quite safe and secure that there are no petty sadistic deities waiting to pull the wings off butterflies forever (with me cast in the role of the butterfly), declaring apatheism and boasting that I would remain apatheistic even if faced with conclusive proof of some existing god is really easy, because I feel comfortable that my boasting will never be tested. But I know that if it were tested, my apatheism would go right out the window the moment that real god even hinted that eternal afterlife existed and held variances between worshipers and non-worshipers.
I think the scenario is more or less likely impossible to come true. That is because the existence of an afterlife and god cannot be scientifically proven. Both of them are not observable, they can neither be tested in a controlled experiment, nor can they be falsified, nor can you make any predictions based upon the assumption that they exist because you wouldn't be able to observe them to see if you were right.
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19-10-2012, 04:41 PM
RE: Apatheism
(19-10-2012 10:01 AM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:  
(18-10-2012 05:57 PM)Vosur Wrote:  Apatheism does not adress the question of whether or not there is an afterlife, merely the question of whether or not there is a god. An Apatheist's answer to the latter question would be "I don't give a damn either way (and I will live my live accordingly)". The existence of hell does not necessarily follow from the existence of god. That being said, if it was proven that heaven and hell exist and that I had to choose between endless torture and eternal bliss, obviously I'd go for the latter one.

Right, I get that. But in your initial post, you said that even if god turned out to be real, you would remain apatheistic.

My contention is that if the god of the Bible turned out to be real and affirmed that everything Christians believe is equally real, including Hell and what you need to do to avoid it, that only an insane person would choose not to bow to the great Yahweh in that imaginary (and nightmarish) situation.

No, as I stated elsewhere, I would join up with Satan to overthrow the sadistic son of a bitch.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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