Apologetics is bad for Christianity
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22-02-2014, 10:50 PM
Apologetics is bad for Christianity




This guy spoke to a lot of points I've thought about before. If were a christian with a basis for belief coming from the supposed holy spirit and not wlc's kalam argument, why would i try to use such arguments to justify belief clearly spurned by something else? It's as TMM points out: disengenuous

If i were a christian I would attack WLC and most other apologists and just beg people to pray because that's how the spirit convinces people.

Though after a while I'd become an atheist anyway after thinking to myself how so many people aren't changed after such a prayer, or converts to another different religion as a result of the spirit of another god.

It's only a debate if both parties are willing to let each other's opinions change their own.
If you aren't willing to change in light of learning more about what you fight for, what the hell are you doing expecting the other party to want to change?
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22-02-2014, 11:18 PM
RE: Apologetics is bad for Christianity
Great video. I've been beating this drum. Christians used to be honest about the fact that belief relies entirely on faith, not evidence or reason. Jesus supposedly told Thomas it's better to have not seen and believed, etc. They are dooming themselves with their fatuous arguments from 'reason'.

I also agree that for religions to survive in the west in coming generations, as we continue to see increasing secularization and advances in women's and gay rights, they'll eventually have to do away with the old dogmas and focus on community and culture, rendering them largely innocuous.
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23-02-2014, 12:16 AM
RE: Apologetics is bad for Christianity
I think apologetics is bad for atheism, hence the need for the propaganda video that is propping up your position a can be used as a peer pressure piece.

If it was truly bad for those you oppose, why not let you opponent run with it, make a fool of himself and destroy what he is trying to protect? Rather we are lead to believe the atheist instinct is to let theist know that what they are doing will be their undoing? For what reason? To be honorable or fair?!? Take a look at some of your own posts let alone the content of others on this forum, or if that is not enough of a man like Richard Dawkins...

Laugh out load sorry try again.

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23-02-2014, 01:03 AM
RE: Apologetics is bad for Christianity
I almost kinda sorta agree with Drick on this one. They wouldn't keep doing it if it didn't work, and when you're trying to sell abject nonsense in the post Enlightment age, you have to try to make the fairy tales sound as reasonable as possible. Just saying "you have to have faith that Jesus talked to a group of pigs and they committed suicide" is a hard sell.

Softly, softly, catchee monkey.
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23-02-2014, 02:42 AM
Apologetics is bad for Christianity
(23-02-2014 12:16 AM)Drich Wrote:  I think apologetics is bad for atheism, hence the need for the propaganda video that is propping up your position a can be used as a peer pressure piece.

You aren't able to coherently respond to questions or requests for evidence in a logical manner, and therefore not the expert on apologetics you believe yourself to be.

In the Traditional Problem of Good and Evil thread, your response to "If God is all-good, all-knowing and all-powerful, why does evil exist?" You dumped a tenant of the Christian religion: God's Omnibenevolence, and claimed to the logical paradox "didn't apply to Christianity". You don't seem to understand the rules of logic or debate, let alone how to apply them in apologetics.


(23-02-2014 12:16 AM)Drich Wrote:  If it was truly bad for those you oppose, why not let you opponent run with it, make a fool of himself and destroy what he is trying to protect? Rather we are lead to believe the atheist instinct is to let theist know that what they are doing will be their undoing? For what reason? To be honorable or fair?!? Take a look at some of your own posts let alone the content of others on this forum, or if that is not enough of a man like Richard Dawkins...

Laugh out load sorry try again.

Do you actually believe any of your posts convince anyone of anything other than your napoleonic complex?

Did you watch the video? Do you have anything to contribute other then knocked-over chess pieces?[Image: uhyby3y4.jpg]

β€œIt is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
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23-02-2014, 02:43 AM
RE: Apologetics is bad for Christianity
I agree with toadaly. Let em say bunch of stupid shit and make themselves look bad. Drich fails anyway none the less.
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23-02-2014, 06:40 AM
RE: Apologetics is bad for Christianity
Apologetics exist to quiet doubts in believers, or people on the verge of believing.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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23-02-2014, 07:16 AM
RE: Apologetics is bad for Christianity
I'll have to hand it to Drich, hes run away more people from ever considering christianity with his ramblings, then any of us could ever hope to convert.

I think that he might just be on our side...... Consider

If bullshit were music some people would be a brass band.
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23-02-2014, 09:16 AM
RE: Apologetics is bad for Christianity
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2014/02/22...?hpt=hp_c2

An article on CNN this morning on the spiritual but not religious. It illustrates what I mean about the need for religion to discard the old dogmas if it is to survive in coming generations. Sure people will still want to believe in an afterlife and higher power, but they won't buy biblical literalism and the associated bigotry. It's good news for atheists, because dogma-free spirituality is far less damaging to the world.

In my opinion apologetics is primarily geared to defend literalism and the dogmas. These SBNR types are fine taking their ambiguous beliefs on faith.
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23-02-2014, 12:19 PM (This post was last modified: 23-02-2014 02:43 PM by le_bard.)
RE: Apologetics is bad for Christianity
(23-02-2014 12:16 AM)Drich Wrote:  I think apologetics is bad for atheism, hence the need for the propaganda video that is propping up your position a can be used as a peer pressure piece.

If it was truly bad for those you oppose, why not let you opponent run with it, make a fool of himself and destroy what he is trying to protect? Rather we are lead to believe the atheist instinct is to let theist know that what they are doing will be their undoing? For what reason? To be honorable or fair?!? Take a look at some of your own posts let alone the content of others on this forum, or if that is not enough of a man like Richard Dawkins...

Laugh out load sorry try again.

I won't lie that I make mistakes in my posts but, really, we all do. You act as if you're the only sane guy in a room of monkeys sometimes, you know that? I get it. Debating is tiring but the moment you get to the point where you can only respond to people with condescension, the debate is lost and the pissing contest ensues. I've had that shit happen countless times here, but I think the whole reason for it is explained in this very video. We're arguing about the wrong shit.

Quote:If it was truly bad for those you oppose, why not let you opponent run with it, make a fool of himself and destroy what he is trying to protect? Rather we are lead to believe the atheist instinct is to let theist know that what they are doing will be their undoing? For what reason? To be honorable or fair?!? Take a look at some of your own posts let alone the content of others on this forum, or if that is not enough of a man like Richard Dawkins...

Because I'm an impatient man, and many people just end up cursing each other out over the pointless things. You've done it, I've done it, we all have. We can do as you say and let the opponent make a fool of himself but guess what? We'll just end up with someone feeling butthurt because we allowed the conversation to become a circus. And when you're in a circus, someone's gonna laugh at somebody. So let's stop putting up all the bullshit defense mechanisms that do nothing but make everyone despise conversation and come at it like we're defending our respect instead of testing our ideals.

The point is that if we're going to discuss why people believe or don't believe, be honest and discuss the source of your belief. If almost every christian will admit that the source of their belief is faith bred by the holy spirit, and NOT some silly argument, why the heck are we talking about everything but? Sure, the rest is also interesting to discuss but it misses a point and we end up defending science, the acquisition of knowledge, the validity of abiogenesis, and every other scientific claim instead of talking about the point.

An atheist's reason for non belief is often met with assertions like "you didn't do it right" without taking time to honestly listen. And when we say "why is it that we should trust this personal testament of faith when there's a dime a dozen of those for every single religion out there?" we get "because the bible is true"

We ask why should we posit faith in the bible's claims that jesus rose from the dead, and we get non sequiturs: "the bible is so historically accurate that we can't deny this" and "people wouldn't have died for their beliefs if they were false"

It's tiring, really. All of this shit is.

It's only a debate if both parties are willing to let each other's opinions change their own.
If you aren't willing to change in light of learning more about what you fight for, what the hell are you doing expecting the other party to want to change?
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