Apologetics is bad for Christianity
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26-02-2014, 08:33 AM (This post was last modified: 26-02-2014 08:36 AM by donotwant.)
RE: Apologetics is bad for Christianity
What is impossible for omnipotent being to do?

As far omniscience and free will goes it's the fact that omniscient god knew everything I am going to do before I was born and he knows before I'm born if I am going to end up in hell or not. Therefore it is impossible for me to avoid hell thus it is immoral to send me to hell for doing things I could not avoid doing.

As for as omnipotence goes. There were instances where people prevented other people from killing other people and it was considered moral to prevent it. Also there were instances where people killed other people and there were no people around to prevent that killing. So does it mean god was not omnipotent enough to prevent the killing or chose not to? Because if god can't prevent murder while man can prevent murder then man is either more powerful then god or more moral then god.
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26-02-2014, 08:36 AM
RE: Apologetics is bad for Christianity
(26-02-2014 08:33 AM)donotwant Wrote:  What is impossible for omnipotent being to do?

As far omniscience and free will goes it's the fact that omniscient god knew everything I am going to do before I was born and he knows before I'm born if I am going to end up in hell or not. Therefore it is impossible for me to avoid hell thus it is immoral to send me to hell for doing things I could not avoid doing.
You're saying that it's impossible for an omnipotent and omniscient god to give man free will.
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26-02-2014, 08:37 AM
RE: Apologetics is bad for Christianity
What is free will?
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26-02-2014, 08:50 AM
RE: Apologetics is bad for Christianity
(26-02-2014 08:37 AM)donotwant Wrote:  What is free will?
For this purpose, the ability to make moral choices. If we choose to act immorally, then it is just for god to judge us.
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26-02-2014, 08:52 AM
RE: Apologetics is bad for Christianity
And what about the victim of that free will? Rape victim, murder victim etc... Was gods desire to allow the perpetrator to have free will greater than the desire to protect the vitcim?
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26-02-2014, 08:53 AM
RE: Apologetics is bad for Christianity
(26-02-2014 08:50 AM)alpha male Wrote:  
(26-02-2014 08:37 AM)donotwant Wrote:  What is free will?
For this purpose, the ability to make moral choices. If we choose to act immorally, then it is just for god to judge us.

The incompatibility of free will and omniscience lies in inability to do otherwise.
If somebody is gonna be a murderer god knows it before the murderer is born. So how can you judge someone for something they were destined to do before they were born?
And if god could design a universe in which this person would not become a murderer then it is god who is responsible for the murders because it is he who decided to design a universe knowing this person would become a murderer. He decided for this person to become a murderer once he created the universe.
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26-02-2014, 09:05 AM
RE: Apologetics is bad for Christianity
(26-02-2014 08:53 AM)donotwant Wrote:  The incompatibility of free will and omniscience lies in inability to do otherwise.
If somebody is gonna be a murderer god knows it before the murderer is born. So how can you judge someone for something they were destined to do before they were born?
Yes, I understand the argument - it's as old as the hills. The point is that, once you adopt this position, you've established that omnipotence does not mean "able to do anything," but rather is limited to that which is logically possible. Yet, in other contexts, atheists will argue that omnipotence does mean able to do anything without limitation (saw that on this forum yesterday), and claim that theists are wrong to note the logically impossible limitation.
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26-02-2014, 09:07 AM
RE: Apologetics is bad for Christianity
Why is it impossible for god to stop cancer?
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26-02-2014, 09:20 AM
RE: Apologetics is bad for Christianity
(26-02-2014 01:10 AM)Lion IRC Wrote:  Waaaaa!
My negative reps are -13
Weeping

Fixed. No need to thank me, I'm here to serve. Drinking Beverage

Softly, softly, catchee monkey.
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26-02-2014, 09:20 AM
RE: Apologetics is bad for Christianity
(26-02-2014 08:22 AM)alpha male Wrote:  It's inconsistent to argue that omnipotence means "can do anything" when it suits your purposes (typically in a PoE discussion), but to also claim that omniscience and free will are logcially incompatible.

How come?
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