Apologetics with a believing wife
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06-11-2014, 08:03 AM
RE: Apologetics with a believing wife
This video (and playlist) may be helpful.



Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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06-11-2014, 08:22 AM
RE: Apologetics with a believing wife
Also I have found from being here that many people that deconvert do so because they wanted to know the truth, whatever it was. They did research, tried to find the answers to supoort their "faith" and the more they dug, the more they were left with it all being just a myth.

the key is they all wanted to KNOW. If your wife isnt interested in KNOWING then I doubt she will ever fully grasp where you are coming from. Hence the "you think too much" comment.

its an emotional. feeling for her, not an analytical, logical, rational thing.


Plant some seeds for critical thinking, check out Yourloggicalfallacyis.com and spend your time teaching her how to recognize flaws in any argument, you will probably get more mileage.

Also, I wanted to mention kudos for having a believer/atheist marriage that is strong enough to have these conversations, we seem to be a minority. Thumbsup


"Life is a daring adventure or it is nothing"--Helen Keller
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06-11-2014, 09:05 AM
RE: Apologetics with a believing wife
(06-11-2014 08:03 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  This video (and playlist) may be helpful.

Yes! I love Steve Shives. I had listened to it long before we ever started reading it. Thanks for the thought, buddy.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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06-11-2014, 09:15 AM
RE: Apologetics with a believing wife
(04-11-2014 09:35 AM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  My wife and I are reading "I don't Have Enough Faith to be and Atheist" right now. She has never read any apologetics of any kind so many of the ideas that they are talking about (i.e. Cosmological argument, etc.) are completely new to her. I am a scientist (and atheist). Science is what I do for a living, she has no scientific background of any kind. When we discuss what the book says, I share the problems that we all know of as well as my own ideas. I try to be as respectful as possible but she gets offended every time I say something that doesn't agree with Turek and Geissler (which is much of the time). Last night we were talking about it and I asked her why she felt attacked. Her response was that she really didn't know why but she felt that this book is supposed to help her believe more and by me pointing out the flaws, it is offending her. I pointed out that if she reads this and then we talk about it later afterwards then what is the difference? Does anyone have any experience with this? I really need some help with this if anyone has any advice. I'm not trying to deconvert her or anything, just trying to engage her in an intellectual conversation.

I know that feeling preferring to believe a convenient lie than to face a reality. Keep reminding her that your not trying to change her opinion of god, but people lying in his name bother you.

That book is completely flawed and at times downright disingenuous.

Just wait for the chapter on evolution and the way they conflate it with abiogenesis. Facepalm


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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06-11-2014, 10:47 AM
RE: Apologetics with a believing wife
[/quote]

I know that feeling preferring to believe a convenient lie than to face a reality. Keep reminding her that your not trying to change her opinion of god, but people lying in his name bother you.

That book is completely flawed and at times downright disingenuous.

Just wait for the chapter on evolution and the way they conflate it with abiogenesis. Facepalm
[/quote]


Wait, wait. You mean to tell me that there is a chapter WORSE than the fine tuning chapter. Oh man! What did I get myself into?

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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19-11-2014, 11:58 AM
RE: Apologetics with a believing wife
So we discussed the chapter on Evolution (chap 5) and I don't really think I did a good job of clearly explaining the ideas about abiogenesis and evolution. If you have not read it, it is utterly PAINFUL!!! I am looking for a few youtube videos to show her (which she agreed to watch) that explain it in a clear manner. I have found a few but does anyone have any suggestions? I am looking for about 10 minutes in length as long as it hits the main points.

She was really boiling last night but I kept reminding her that I was not talking about her but their arguments were nonsense.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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19-11-2014, 12:05 PM (This post was last modified: 19-11-2014 12:14 PM by The Polyglot Atheist.)
RE: Apologetics with a believing wife
Check potholer54's Our Origins Made Easy playlist. It has various topics, video number 3 is Abiogenesis, and number 7 is Evolution. Big Grin

I also found this one which is very easy to follow: What is Evolution? and What is the evidence for Evolution?

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19-11-2014, 12:13 PM
RE: Apologetics with a believing wife
She's looking for answers for her doubts. I'd keep at it so she understands at least that the arguments are crap, though I understand it's hard for her because these doubts just eat away at her.
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19-11-2014, 02:32 PM
RE: Apologetics with a believing wife
(19-11-2014 12:05 PM)The Polyglot Atheist Wrote:  Check potholer54's Our Origins Made Easy playlist. It has various topics, video number 3 is Abiogenesis, and number 7 is Evolution. Big Grin

I also found this one which is very easy to follow: What is Evolution? and What is the evidence for Evolution?

Geez, I totally forgot about potholer. Thanks!!

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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20-11-2014, 01:14 PM
RE: Apologetics with a believing wife
As far your wife goes, she seems too define herself as a christian. That is to say that
being christian is part of her identity. So she will perceive any attack on christianity,
such as pointing out the flaws in the arguments of Turek, as an attack on her very
identity.

So when discussing religion with try to decouple her beliefs from her identity before
engaging her with facts and scientific reasoning.

For background details and how-to do this see:



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"Newtons drittes Gesetz: Der einzige Weg wie Menschen irgendwo hin kommen, ist der dass sie etwas zurücklassen." - TARS, Interstellar
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