Apparently Gawd Is Smiting Me...
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07-03-2014, 10:41 AM
RE: Apparently Gawd Is Smiting Me...
(07-03-2014 10:32 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(07-03-2014 10:30 AM)Im_Ryan Wrote:  Then your idea is unfalsifiable. Why should we trust your conclusion?

My turbo edit was to slow....

Anyways. On the subject of your question, I have not made any conclusion. You are confused about that. Another person made a claim and I asked him to substantiate it.....that is all.

You believe in a god don't you? Assuming Christian? You must have come to a conclusion that he exists. So, we must be able to find some sort of evidence that he exists right? If not, hoe could it rationally expect us to believe? By unfalsifiable claims? Well, then might as well believe in FSM cause you can't disprove it, can you?
See where I'm (and atheism) comes from?

Atir aissom atir imon
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07-03-2014, 10:44 AM
RE: Apparently Gawd Is Smiting Me...
(07-03-2014 10:39 AM)Timber1025 Wrote:  
(07-03-2014 10:32 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  My turbo edit was to slow....

Anyways. On the subject of your question, I have not made any conclusion. You are confused about that. Another person made a claim and I asked him to substantiate it.....that is all.

My two cents - I think you are nit picking the statement as you always do, and missing the overall message or point that was being made. The person's claim (more like a general statement) was to suggest that believer or not, the same amount of good and bad things happen to you, in equal proportions. There is no special direction or choosing from a god. That is what I got out out that post. I think this is well understood, but finding specific references is always a bit more difficult in this matter.

The basis of his criticism of the aunts unsubstantiated claim is his own unsubstantiated claim. That's not good thinking.
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07-03-2014, 10:45 AM
RE: Apparently Gawd Is Smiting Me...
(07-03-2014 10:44 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(07-03-2014 10:39 AM)Timber1025 Wrote:  My two cents - I think you are nit picking the statement as you always do, and missing the overall message or point that was being made. The person's claim (more like a general statement) was to suggest that believer or not, the same amount of good and bad things happen to you, in equal proportions. There is no special direction or choosing from a god. That is what I got out out that post. I think this is well understood, but finding specific references is always a bit more difficult in this matter.

The basis of his criticism of the aunts unsubstantiated claim is his own unsubstantiated claim. That's not good thinking.

You must take it on faith.

Atir aissom atir imon
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07-03-2014, 10:48 AM
RE: Apparently Gawd Is Smiting Me...
(07-03-2014 10:44 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(07-03-2014 10:39 AM)Timber1025 Wrote:  My two cents - I think you are nit picking the statement as you always do, and missing the overall message or point that was being made. The person's claim (more like a general statement) was to suggest that believer or not, the same amount of good and bad things happen to you, in equal proportions. There is no special direction or choosing from a god. That is what I got out out that post. I think this is well understood, but finding specific references is always a bit more difficult in this matter.

The basis of his criticism of the aunts unsubstantiated claim is his own unsubstantiated claim. That's not good thinking.

I have lived 47 years on this planet and can sustantiate, through experience, my claim that christians I have encountered in all those years get the same amount of disease, hardships, and overall bad luck as do athiests. You, or the aunt in this senario, cannot substantiate any claim of punishment from any pissed off diety. I would love for you to try.

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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08-03-2014, 02:24 AM
RE: Apparently Gawd Is Smiting Me...
Alright, can I chime in here? I'm not sure which perspective I'm coming from (Christian or not) as I don't know what the heck I am right now. I'm currently considering myself an Agnostic. But one thing I've noticed is this:

When someone within our congregation had a health issue or other problem (and there were soooo many), they would state their prayer request, and we would all pray for them (and often their family, if there was a need for them to cope). The issue for the church member was often described as "Trials and Tribulations," "A test of faith," a "cup" that we would often pray would "pass" from us, "God's perfect will" as "His ways are perfect" and he knows what we do not, etc., etc. etc.

Now, a person leaves the church. Word gets around that this person has since had something happen to them similar to one of the many things we would pray about every week for our members. Instead of this being "trials and tribulations" and such, the terms change dramatically. It now becomes "judgement," "divine justice," "chastisement," "wrath," etc.

I have always wondered at the double standard. The same things happen, but the terminology varies widely depending on which group a person was in.

Then to put the cherry on top of my Confusion Sundae, there's the verse they would sometimes quote about the rain falling on both the just and the unjust.

(Note: this is from a Christian Fundamentalist background)
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10-03-2014, 08:16 AM
RE: Apparently Gawd Is Smiting Me...
(07-03-2014 10:29 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I'm not convinced you could credibly test God.

Of course not, or he'd stop being nonfalsifiable, and people would stop believing in him. The only religions that currently survive are the ones that either are nonfalsifiable, or that have nonfalsifiable, handwavy answers to the testable questions.

If God could be scrutinized without his followers yelling "stop scrutinizing my god!", we wouldn't have these discussions.
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14-03-2014, 03:13 PM
RE: Apparently Gawd Is Smiting Me...
Well, since I originally posted this thread, my cousin (daughter of said bible thumper) has contacted me on Facebook to thank me for getting the word out about this disorder. Many of our family members have long suffered from asthma, COPD, and emphysema. Enough so that when we hear that someone has died, our first instinct is to ask "Was it their lungs?"

Anyhow, she has two children, and all three of them have asthmatic symptoms. So she is getting her family tested this coming week.

She also apologized profusely for her mother's behavior, explaining that since my uncle (who was heavily involved in the church) was caught cheating, my aunt has buried herself in religious fire and brimstone.
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14-03-2014, 03:40 PM
RE: Apparently Gawd Is Smiting Me...
Oops, double posted that. Since I can't delete the message on my phone, I just edited the text. Sorry guys!
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