Apparently I am Deceived.
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18-12-2012, 05:25 PM
RE: Apparently I am Deceived.
(18-12-2012 05:19 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(18-12-2012 05:11 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  So, are you saying that god knew all along he'd create Christ? Why not just make everyone like himself to begin with, why bother creating lessor beings at all?
God's omniscience and God's plan always existed. One didn't exist before the other as they are both infinite. Each was, and always is; no variation from the plan is conceivable.

As to why He planned it the way He planned it... I don't know. I can't answer that.

Thank you :-)
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18-12-2012, 05:48 PM
RE: Apparently I am Deceived.
(18-12-2012 05:19 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(18-12-2012 05:11 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  So, are you saying that god knew all along he'd create Christ? Why not just make everyone like himself to begin with, why bother creating lessor beings at all?

God's omniscience and God's plan always existed. One didn't exist before the other as they are both infinite. Each was, and always is; no variation from the plan is conceivable.

As to why He planned it the way He planned it... I don't know. I can't answer that.


Lol, maybe the guys who say we live in a computer generated simulation are correct then. Our lives were all pre-designed and now someone sits there and watches the movie or plays the game. That would be god then.

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18-12-2012, 06:01 PM (This post was last modified: 18-12-2012 06:36 PM by Janus.)
RE: Apparently I am Deceived.
(18-12-2012 05:19 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(18-12-2012 05:11 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  So, are you saying that god knew all along he'd create Christ? Why not just make everyone like himself to begin with, why bother creating lessor beings at all?
God's omniscience and God's plan always existed. One didn't exist before the other as they are both infinite. Each was, and always is; no variation from the plan is conceivable.

As to why He planned it the way He planned it... I don't know. I can't answer that.
And since He doesn't provide a logical and acceptable explanation, we, the people, are 200% justified in – and indeed forced to – interpreting the data available to us: His actions. And what we see, neatly immortalized in the OT, is that He's made all sorts of BIG la-di-da promises all the time, and then turned around and pulled the rug from under us time and again. That qualifies as a sadistic, treacherous, utterly unreliable asshole in my book. Obscenely immoral too: what father kills his own children?

He probably lied about Jebus' second coming too.

Like I said before: I utterly despise gods, and other assholes, with hidden agendas and megalomaniacal, sadistic methods. How intelligent, independent, logically, and decently thinking human beings can worship abject immoral personae like that is beyond me.
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18-12-2012, 06:59 PM
RE: Apparently I am Deceived.
(18-12-2012 04:57 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Well, no. God doesn't take pleasure in evil or damnation. It's the cause and effect of evil that had to be in order to fulfill Christ's purpose.

Wait, wait, wait.

God created Evil and Damnation to be the cause and effect in order to fulfill Christ's purpose?

Pardon me, but WTF?

Are you actually saying here that God wanted to create Christ, but wanted him to have a purpose, and not just a lowly little "life is good" purpose like you and I have, but a really bitchin' purpose, a truly god-like purpose, so he created Evil and he created Damnation, forcing billions upon billions of souls to suffer an eternity in Hell, just to justify creating Christ?

That's what you're saying?

You're actually directly saying that he planned all this in advance (which makes sense for an omniscient deity) and his plan included tens of billions of souls suffering for eternity just to justify Jesus?

Shit, I thought the worst thing he did to Jesus was send him down here to be tortured and crucified but I was wrong. Way wrong. Jesus has to exist for eternity knowing his existence is justified by billions and billions and billions of eternally suffering souls, just so Jesus could exist. I couldn't live with that. But Jesus can't die, so he's stuck with living with it. Poor bastard, he seems like a nice enough guy, mostly, unless you're a money changer or a fig tree, I bet he would have chosen to roast in hell for eternity if it could have kept the rest of us out of hell - Jesus seems like that kind of straight up guy. I bet it's killing him to know that his sick, sadistic, ass-hat of a dad deliberately consigned billions of souls to hell just as a birthday present for him.

That's some twisted shit.

(OK, maybe I missed a /sarcasm font - if I did, the rant still stands but the target is ill-chosen).

"Whores perform the same function as priests, but far more thoroughly." - Robert A. Heinlein
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18-12-2012, 08:12 PM
RE: Apparently I am Deceived.
Basically, since he knew he would create Christ, he knew already us error prone humans would just fuck everything up because we can't handle free will. So he creates evil and let's us believe we did it (created) because we sinned. So god gets the credit for rainbows and we get credit for the flood...

Because we weren't apparently made to be "perfect" like him. If he did create us, why would he bother? It almost sounds like this god is some sort or scientist and we're just all in his petri dish.


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Wind's in the east, a mist coming in
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but I feel what's to happen has happened before...


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18-12-2012, 10:08 PM
RE: Apparently I am Deceived.
^That, pretty much.

So he didn't create us perfect, but if he wants imperfect beings to fuck up and suffer eternal torment, it's hard to believe that HE is perfect, either (a supposedly loving being wouldn't be so keen on creating people just to torture them). If we were already prone to doing bad stuff, then he'd already know that, and not need to impregnate a virgin and have his son murdered to save us from our error-prone ways. And this is pretty much why Christianity doesn't make sense to me. Any way you slice it, it seems a lot like a young child killing insects with a magnifying glass.
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18-12-2012, 10:47 PM (This post was last modified: 19-12-2012 03:24 AM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Apparently I am Deceived.
(17-12-2012 01:24 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(16-12-2012 10:09 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  So just why would this perfect god allow imperfection? Why not create everyone like himself, just perfect? We wouldn't have to put up with his whinging that things aren't perfect if he'd made us like him in the first place.

God must have been bored, which means he ain't perfect. If he ain't perfect, he ain't a god.

So god don't exist.

Wow!

Sometimes I feel almost as clever as HOC!

Because that would be God creating God. He didn't want that.



How do you know what your imaginary friend wanted?

If you had perfectly clean white sheets on a bed, you wouldn't "want" to cover them in poo. Why would god want to sleep in shit?

It's obvious god was bored.
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18-12-2012, 10:57 PM
RE: Apparently I am Deceived.
(18-12-2012 04:57 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(18-12-2012 04:53 PM)Dom Wrote:  That's exactly what KC is saying.

According to KC, god ceated two kinds of people - the chosen ones who follow him, and the crap that goes to hell. And god knows exactly who is who when he creates them.

So god likes to create imperfect beings, most of whom he takes pleasure in watching on their path to hell.

How someone as nice as KC can believe something so sick I will never understand.
Well, no. God doesn't take pleasure in evil or damnation. It's the cause and effect of evil that had to be in order to fulfill Christ's purpose.



So evil was created by God so Christ had a "purpose?" Wow...that's deep!

Um....couldn't god have found something else for Christ to do? Like um...I dunno....clean out the "gents" every couple of days? Or wash the sheets?
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