Appeal to Authority vs. Peer Review.
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13-12-2017, 11:04 AM
Appeal to Authority vs. Peer Review.
If Appeal to Authority is a fallacy then is not citing an article in a peer reviewed journal the same fallacy?

I say no but that's the objection that has been directed at me.

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13-12-2017, 11:08 AM
RE: Appeal to Authority vs. Peer Review.
(13-12-2017 11:04 AM)f stop Wrote:  If Appeal to Authority is a fallacy then is not citing an article in a peer reviewed journal the same fallacy?

No. The "appeal to authority" fallacy is when someone appeals to an authority in one field, who's speaking about a subject in another field. Asking a physicist with a Nobel prize in Physics to comment on a subject in Physics is legitimate. Asking a physicist to comment on religion or dentistry, IS the appeal to authority fallacy.

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13-12-2017, 11:18 AM
RE: Appeal to Authority vs. Peer Review.
I'd like to add that when you cite a peer reviewed paper it goes without saying that the author is well versed in the topic, plus peers have reviewed the work and either agreed or found holes in it.

Scientist are very competitive, if they can find fallacies or errors in another's work they won't hesitate to say so.

Ask your opponent who they go and see when they are ill, a doctor or a car mechanic. Also ask them if when they enter the office they check for diplomas and accredetations. They haven't thought this through, they rely on authority all the time.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
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13-12-2017, 11:30 AM (This post was last modified: 13-12-2017 11:34 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Appeal to Authority vs. Peer Review.
(13-12-2017 11:18 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  Scientist are very competitive, if they can find fallacies or errors in another's work they won't hesitate to say so.

In fact they *love it*. Some hate each other.
Once I saw an MD, PhD (surgeon) rip a page out of someone's chart, and throw it on the floor, (which actually was illegal), mumbling "what a quack", (criticizing a procedure the other guy .. also an MD, PhD surgeon did, that he didn't "believe in").

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein It is objectively immoral to kill innocent babies. Please stick to the guilty babies.
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13-12-2017, 11:47 AM
RE: Appeal to Authority vs. Peer Review.
(13-12-2017 11:30 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(13-12-2017 11:18 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  Scientist are very competitive, if they can find fallacies or errors in another's work they won't hesitate to say so.

In fact they *love it*. Some hate each other.
Once I saw an MD, PhD (surgeon) rip a page out of someone's chart, and throw it on the floor, (which actually was illegal), mumbling "what a quack", (criticizing a procedure the other guy .. also an MD, PhD surgeon did, that he didn't "believe in").

CITATION NEEDED.







Big Grin

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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13-12-2017, 12:06 PM
RE: Appeal to Authority vs. Peer Review.
They’re very different as has been pointed out.

I will add that if everyone in the discussion agrees on the value of the authority it actually can lead to a conclusion.

Is it ok to wear hats to work on casual Friday?

Yo boss, can we wear hats on Fridays?

Not if you want to keep your jobs.

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13-12-2017, 12:25 PM
RE: Appeal to Authority vs. Peer Review.
(13-12-2017 11:04 AM)f stop Wrote:  If Appeal to Authority is a fallacy then is not citing an article in a peer reviewed journal the same fallacy?

I say no but that's the objection that has been directed at me.

It’s not a fallacy to cite someone who actually is an authority in a certain field. It only becomes a fallacy when you cite someone who is an authority in one area as applicable in an unrelated area.
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13-12-2017, 12:37 PM
RE: Appeal to Authority vs. Peer Review.
(13-12-2017 11:18 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  I'd like to add that when you cite a peer reviewed paper it goes without saying that the author is well versed in the topic

No. It should go without saying, but peer review doesn’t always work that way. When William Dembski published “The Design Inference,” his peer review panel didn’t consist of mathematicians and statisticians as it should. Instead, Cambridge assigned two theologians and a philosopher, who, unsurprisingly, found no problems with his thesis.
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13-12-2017, 12:49 PM
RE: Appeal to Authority vs. Peer Review.
(13-12-2017 11:47 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(13-12-2017 11:30 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  In fact they *love it*. Some hate each other.
Once I saw an MD, PhD (surgeon) rip a page out of someone's chart, and throw it on the floor, (which actually was illegal), mumbling "what a quack", (criticizing a procedure the other guy .. also an MD, PhD surgeon did, that he didn't "believe in").

CITATION NEEDED.

Big Grin

One of them could possibly still be around ... (I see his son on TV advertising something stupid) ..... so I plead the 5th. Angel

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13-12-2017, 01:39 PM
RE: Appeal to Authority vs. Peer Review.
(13-12-2017 11:04 AM)f stop Wrote:  If Appeal to Authority is a fallacy then is not citing an article in a peer reviewed journal the same fallacy?

I say no but that's the objection that has been directed at me.

No polite way to put it, THEY are full of shit.

Peer review as used in scientific method is not merely a power dictating on everyone else. It is a quality control to filter out bias and gain a consensus.

Apologists, theologians and holy people are not looking for neutral conformation, they are literally used car salesman. Whereas with scientific peer review, with conflicts of competing theories, OVER TIME more testing and peer review end up working out the kinks. Just like if you have not just one car mechanic, but several independently looking at your engine problem, you increase the odds the problem will be fixed.

Back in antiquity, even in polytheism most people lived under ruling families, kings, that is the appeal to authority they are selling.

When a scientist says, "evolution is fact", they are not dictating, they are stating a FACT that has been confirmed independently over long periods of time.

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