Appearing intolerant when opposite is wanted
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19-04-2014, 11:05 AM
Appearing intolerant when opposite is wanted
Has anyone been accused of being intolerant because you don't accept their beliefs the way they do and after having a lengthy conversation about the reasons why some of their beliefs don't stand up to the scientific narrative they will assert that our way of thinking is what led the Nazis to subjugated the Jews? Am I wrong to think less of this person after hearing their response? I respect people in general, but I don't agree with their religion, does this make me appear intolerant to the average believer? If so what are some alternative maneuvers to avoid this misconception?

In america it's often the case that people be respected for their beliefs, but I can't seem to respect their religion as a whole. Is that hypocritical and is there another way to think about respecting people rather than what their opinions happen to be? Is there some common ground people can agree to without having to agree on the specifics?
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19-04-2014, 02:40 PM
RE: Appearing intolerant when opposite is wanted
(19-04-2014 11:05 AM)Bromb Wrote:  Has anyone been accused of being intolerant because you don't accept their beliefs the way they do and after having a lengthy conversation about the reasons why some of their beliefs don't stand up to the scientific narrative they will assert that our way of thinking is what led the Nazis to subjugated the Jews? Am I wrong to think less of this person after hearing their response? I respect people in general, but I don't agree with their religion, does this make me appear intolerant to the average believer? If so what are some alternative maneuvers to avoid this misconception?

In america it's often the case that people be respected for their beliefs, but I can't seem to respect their religion as a whole. Is that hypocritical and is there another way to think about respecting people rather than what their opinions happen to be? Is there some common ground people can agree to without having to agree on the specifics?

First of all welcome!

Are you are asking what you can say so as not to appear disrespectful and intolerant? Or are you asking what you can do to convince them that they are being disrespectful and intolerant?

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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19-04-2014, 02:49 PM
RE: Appearing intolerant when opposite is wanted
(19-04-2014 11:05 AM)Bromb Wrote:  Has anyone been accused of being intolerant because you don't accept their beliefs the way they do and after having a lengthy conversation about the reasons why some of their beliefs don't stand up to the scientific narrative they will assert that our way of thinking is what led the Nazis to subjugated the Jews? Am I wrong to think less of this person after hearing their response? I respect people in general, but I don't agree with their religion, does this make me appear intolerant to the average believer? If so what are some alternative maneuvers to avoid this misconception?

In america it's often the case that people be respected for their beliefs, but I can't seem to respect their religion as a whole. Is that hypocritical and is there another way to think about respecting people rather than what their opinions happen to be? Is there some common ground people can agree to without having to agree on the specifics?

Hey there hi there ho there! Welcome to our merry little forum! Big Grin

Hm, I haven't really been but usually the topic of religion doesn't pop up around people I talk to somehow. Or if it has, it was more saying what I thought and hearing what they thought and nodding. I'd think my first reaction to someone saying my line of thought was the same as that that caused the Nazis to kill Jews would be annoyance so I wouldn't think you'd be wrong to be angry. I'm not sure what sort of 'middle ground' there'd be. I think it would vary by the conversation, y'know?

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20-04-2014, 03:08 AM
RE: Appearing intolerant when opposite is wanted
Hi Bromb

Yes I've been in your shoes and it's affected some of my decisions in the workplace. I had to ask for a demotion to leave a team in which there was a predominance of Muslim men. Now I don't need to be confronted about being an atheist and I no longer have to go into depression every week for being treated like a freak. When bringing this up to management they refused to take action against those responsible for my terrible work conditions and gave me compensation in the form of easier shifts, etc. This is airport private security in France.

"Tolerance" has different meanings depending on who's hearing it or using it. For us, being tolerant of other people's beliefs simply means that we respect their choices and freedom. For people who need to validate their beliefs as opposed to our lackthereof, our meaning of tolerance is not enough. Religious people need atheists to change their position and to approve of everything it is about religious living in order to be considered "tolerant". If push comes to shove and you must take a stand as an atheist, to express your disagreement about olden times ethics or inappropriate behavior, then you are no longer "tolerant" towards the religious. You've become a bigot.

The problem with religion as a whole is that is plays the role of a blanket-protection for those who need a life-changing event to keep on living every day. Some people say their lives meant nothing if not for a near-death experience, a natural catastrophe or a devastating war. Other people, they need religion every day in their lives to get confidence. Individually, religious people will always be deeply certain that religion is a good thing for them, but always first disregarding all the bad things it has done before. You can never explain your atheistic choices by saying that religion is bad, or else you'd be called a Nazi... (which is erroneous because Hitler stated many times that he was serving God and had very deistic views in his writings)

Religious people love to play martyr, and most of them will always try to act like "good people" as if over-compensating for the fact that other people have done a lot of damage in the past, in the name of God. All you can do is show that you are a level-headed, happy and confident individual without the need for religion or an imaginary friend looking over you.
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21-04-2014, 06:50 AM
RE: Appearing intolerant when opposite is wanted
It is my personal feeling that you should never judge anyone based on preconceived ideas or on what they personally believe. You should judge someone on their actions and how they treat people. If you don't have that data yet, then you can't have an opinion the individual. Stereotyping is wrong in every situation.

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21-04-2014, 07:37 AM
RE: Appearing intolerant when opposite is wanted
(21-04-2014 06:50 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  It is my personal feeling that you should never judge anyone based on preconceived ideas or on what they personally believe. You should judge someone on their actions and how they treat people. If you don't have that data yet, then you can't have an opinion the individual. Stereotyping is wrong in every situation.

I would like to add that intention is by far any away the best way to judge a person. What there intentions are gives away a lot of information about them, but it is really, really hard to figure out intention most of the time.

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21-04-2014, 08:14 AM
RE: Appearing intolerant when opposite is wanted
(21-04-2014 06:50 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  It is my personal feeling that you should never judge anyone based on preconceived ideas or on what they personally believe. You should judge someone on their actions and how they treat people. If you don't have that data yet, then you can't have an opinion the individual. Stereotyping is wrong in every situation.


Easier said than done. You know what they say about first impressions and the like
.

I try not to form opinions if people leave me be. I have a student's dad who makes a big deal of his Christianity. He is ok though. Although I wonder what it masks. He dutifully brings his boy and pays the fee. What is not to like?

As I have aged I have put on weight and lost my looks. I see the faces on people who meet me and remember when I was a young man. In my business youth and good looks are everything. I recall when I was younger I missed out on a gig to another drummer simply because he was blonde.

We can't change the world.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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