Poll: How would you like to live?
Coral reef?
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Aquatopia
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10-02-2017, 08:45 AM
RE: Aquatopia
(10-02-2017 05:47 AM)DLJ Wrote:  No worries. You classified (made classy) this thread more than it deserved.

I was after some insight as to the meaning of 'security', 'barbarism', 'social', 'liberal', 'conservative' etc. in a natural setting (sans moralistic baggage) to see if an 'ought' from an 'is' might be forthcoming on the assumption that all creatures are seeking a combination of (or trade off between) agility and stability.

Of those (small sample size) who have expressed a preference, who do seem to represent opposites on a traditional left/right political spectrum, all have chosen liberty-creatures over security-creatures and none have gone for the 'socialist' coral reef option or even a socialist 'safety in numbers' option unless you count dolphins as socialist.

Still, I like what you're doing with the place. Carry on.

Actually, I was just thinking that I’m becoming increasingly incapable of holding a coherent conversation, because my mind goes in way too many totally different directions all at once and what comes out is completely unfollowable (even though there is a method to my ramblings Wink)

Seriously speaking though, and much as we, sitting in the comfort and safety of our 21-century lives (where millions of other people have toiled to make it such, have built roads for us, made the world much safer than it used to be, heck, have taken care of our own shit, so we don’t have to wade through it in the street, nor do we have to spend hours each *day* simply grinding the flour for a measly loaf of bread!) would like to pat ourselves on the back and say how we are totally independent and don’t need no one, no way, no how, and can totally make it all on our self-sufficient owns… well, we’re just lying to ourselves (even if we do honestly (and naively) believe it). And if it’s a matter of actual survival? Yeah, let’s see who lasts longer…*

And we may spout whatever crap we like how we don’t need anyone and would like to go live on a desert island because people suck so much, but chances (and by “chance” I mean “certainty”) are, we’d all go insane pretty quickly. We may dislike our coworkers vehemently (hell, why do you think I work from home, even if I do get a bit stir-crazy at times), or not be too good with people eye to eye, but we’re all *here*, aren’t we? Socialising. And yes, that’s exactly what this is (and no, I’m not trying to start that old argument about whether this is a community or a discussion platform ;-)) We all need fellowship, company, an audience (and, with a select obnoxious few, others to antagonize Dodgy ) but the fact of the matter is, everybody here (and everywhere) does need other people, to varying degrees and in varying forms. And there’s absolutely nothing wrong with this. We are all social animals and I don’t see this changing any time soon.

Now, if we could finally get rid of another inherited trait – the need for a “them” to our “us”, it really will be a wonderful world. Maybe one day…


(Me, I chose the octopus because they *are* fascinating and impressive, and I do want to be smart when I grow up Rolleyes )

And literally while I was typing all that, this showed up in my facebook feed (I know, I know)

[Image: us-and-them.jpg]

And here’s the lovely Tom Gauld’s riff on the same theme:

[Image: 78b5aa7181da47677db67e718c936a7c.jpg]

* This is a lot like another "favourite" game of mine, where we're all absolutely certain we'd give up our lives for our principles and ideals, and would totally have opposed the Nazis, had we lived back then (heck, we would've punched Hitler straight in the mug (or balls). We are all the hero in the narratives of our lives we weave.

(Which reminds of this fascinating story by Ted Chiang, The Truth of Fact, the Truth of Feeling)

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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10-02-2017, 08:59 AM
Aquatopia
(10-02-2017 05:20 AM)Banjo Wrote:  
(10-02-2017 05:16 AM)KUSA Wrote:  I have frikin laser beams if you didn't notice.

Orcas have deflectors and hunt white pointers all the time.

You're screwed. Wink


Well if that's the case, I just upgraded.
[Image: 86f78bcfb2ada510842accdfdb851fed.jpg]
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10-02-2017, 09:02 AM
RE: Aquatopia
(10-02-2017 04:25 AM)Vera Wrote:  “To those who have been thirsty all their lives, a single drop is like an ocean.”
... Hint: The original is a very, very old Russian song

pfffft .... You'll have to do better than that if you wanna trip up Girly. no hints next time. Tongue




#sigh
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10-02-2017, 09:21 AM
RE: Aquatopia
(10-02-2017 08:45 AM)Vera Wrote:  ...
(Which reminds of this fascinating story by Ted Chiang, The Truth of Fact, the Truth of Feeling)

Nice. Highlighting (amongst other things) the difference between truth and wisdom.

I've been thinking a lot about that recently, particularly in the context of religion and tradition.

Consider

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10-02-2017, 09:38 AM
RE: Aquatopia
(10-02-2017 09:02 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(10-02-2017 04:25 AM)Vera Wrote:  “To those who have been thirsty all their lives, a single drop is like an ocean.”
... Hint: The original is a very, very old Russian song

pfffft .... You'll have to do better than that if you wanna trip up Girly. no hints next time. Tongue

Not even remotely close, Girly, dear! And that wasn't the line (that one was all me, I'm afraid Shy ) The one I meant was the bit after wonderful world ("was that silly woman really me" And I've been singing the damn song all day now Dodgy )

(10-02-2017 09:21 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Nice. Highlighting (amongst other things) the difference between truth and wisdom.

I've been thinking a lot about that recently, particularly in the context of religion and tradition.

In the words of my favourite Calvinist (well, back then, at least, when I was still deluded *and* hadn't even heard of Calvinism, though could totally sympathise with his fears that he had been "unchosen". Poor, poor man. Even the man who forced that "mysterious ways" bit on an unsuspecting world did not deserve the torture he went through. Religion - the mental prison where we're our worst gaolers and torturers Undecided

[Image: quote-knowledge-is-proud-that-it-knows-s...-63-57.jpg]

Now, the more I think about it... the less I like it, actually. I wouldn't trade a single grain of the knowledge humankind has managed to gather (often despite the best efforts of his precious floating head of a god and its henchmen) since we first looked up at the sky for all the "wisdom" contained in that vile book of his Dodgy

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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10-02-2017, 09:54 AM
RE: Aquatopia
(10-02-2017 09:38 AM)Vera Wrote:  ...
Now, the more I think about it... the less I like it, actually. I wouldn't trade a single grain of the knowledge humankind has managed to gather (often despite the best efforts of his precious floating head of a god and its henchmen) since we first looked up at the sky for all the "wisdom" contained in that vile book of his Dodgy

Oooh! Can I use my new catchphrase?

We dismiss your religion because it is not true; we don't dismiss it because it is not wise.

(and in the case of authoritarian beliefs, the latter part's double entendre is intentional).

Anyway, back to the fish.

Blink

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10-02-2017, 09:55 AM
RE: Aquatopia
(10-02-2017 09:38 AM)Vera Wrote:  
(10-02-2017 09:02 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  pfffft .... You'll have to do better than that if you wanna trip up Girly. no hints next time. Tongue

Not even remotely close, Girly, dear! And that wasn't the line (that one was all me, I'm afraid Shy ) The one I meant was the bit after wonderful world ("was that silly woman really me" And I've been singing the damn song all day now Dodgy )

No fair. It's "was that lonely woman really me". Do you have any idea how much Google time that cost me? And I knew it was Hava Nagila all along.





I like the Bunker version better.




#sigh
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10-02-2017, 10:13 AM
RE: Aquatopia
You may, DLJ... though I wouldn't call Xtianity particularly wise, either. But even if it were - you're absolutely right. Unlike agent Mulder, I don't want to believe, I want to know. And if I cannot know, I don't want to soothe myself with nice-sounding made-up stuff. (Well, I do find the idea of an indifferent universe much more soothing that all the empty promises of all the world's religions combined, but still...)

Girly, what does Hava Nagila hava (see what I did there Tongue ) to do with it ? Consider It ain't the same song.

Though this reminds me of a brilliant (and disheartening) documentary a Bulgarian journalist did about a song (which I happen to really like) that you can find in pretty much all countries in the Balkans (turns out, it originates from way to the East, forget where exactly though)... and it's such a perfect metaphor for how we really are over here, all the similarities, common history, love and hatred we have for each other... (like it said on a T-shirt someone was wearing on Goran Bregovic concert: ''Those who don't go crazy here are not normal")

"In her search for the true origins of a haunting melody, the filmmaker travels to Turkey, Greece, Macedonia, Albania, Bosnia, Serbia and Bulgaria. The trip is filled with humor, suspense, tragedy and surprise as each country's citizens passionately claim the song to be their own and can even furnish elaborate histories for its origins.

The tune emerges again and again in different forms: as a love song, a religious hymn, a revolutionary anthem, and even a military march. The powerful emotions and stubborn nationalism raised by one song seem at times comical and other times, eerily telling. In a region besieged by ethnic hatred and war, what begins as a light-hearted investigation ends as a sociological and historical exploration of the deep misunderstandings between the people of the Balkans."





(And this is our version of the song. I quite like it Yes )






PS. See what I meant, DLJ? Mind's gone in way too many directions already and I haven't even started on the fish yet Confused

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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10-02-2017, 11:15 AM
RE: Aquatopia
(10-02-2017 10:13 AM)Vera Wrote:  Girly, what does Hava Nagila hava (see what I did there Tongue ) to do with it ? Consider It ain't the same song.

The hell you say. Sounds the same to me.




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10-02-2017, 12:17 PM
RE: Aquatopia
(10-02-2017 11:15 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  The hell you say. Sounds the same to me.

And I guess next you'll be telling me this is the same song, too? Smartass

I know all we Eastern types are the same to you (especially when fiddling with... well, with our fiddles, really) but still - It. Ain't. The. Same. Song Yes




"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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