Poll: What best describes those agnostic about God
This poll is closed.
Gutless Atheists 8.33% 2 8.33%
Dreamers 0% 0 0%
Off track and annoying 4.17% 1 4.17%
Deeper Thinkers 8.33% 2 8.33%
Other? 75.00% 18 75.00%
Uneducated 4.17% 1 4.17%
Total 24 votes 100%
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Are Agnostics gutless Atheists?
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19-06-2015, 08:48 PM
RE: Are Agnostics gutless Atheists?
(19-06-2015 05:26 PM)julep Wrote:  To me,the agnostic position is the most intellectually defensible/honest. In terms of the absolute idea of whether some kind of god exists, I am agnostic.
Yet I call myself a pragmatic atheist. In my personal definition, I am an agnostic who has chosen to act as if there is no god because there is no concept of god in the traditional, worship-me iteration that makes sense/seems to me worthy of worship. I feel that my decision to act as if there is no god is a moral one, while the agnostic position is an intellectual one.
However, I would not call the label of agnostic gutless. I think that is mislabeling--in this case, using moral terminology for an intellectual position.

I'm a little drunk now....but I found this beautifully poetic. Drooling Shocking Big Grin

**Crickets** -- God
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19-06-2015, 08:51 PM
RE: Are Agnostics gutless Atheists?
Other

I've identified as agnostic as most of my life; the gradual change from agnostic to atheism had less to do with my actual beliefs changing and more to do with the fact atheism took on a different definition. My hanging point was that you can't prove a negative, thus you cannot prove god doesn't exist, thus atheism was too strong a position; unless I realized atheism had more to do with a lack of belief in god with a general understanding a negative can't be proven. Id est, I originally thought atheism necessitates that you believe god absolutely doesn't exist; now I think atheism necessitates that you lack a belief in god. I wouldn't say it was gutless as much as not really caring much about the difference between agonsticism and atheism.
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20-06-2015, 05:32 AM
RE: Are Agnostics gutless Atheists?
There are 3 to 4 different types of what an Agnostic means, so other than other? I can't really give any label to them.

Strong hard defenders of Huxley classic Agnosticism to me are far more gutsy and strong willed than any Agnostic-Atheist. There has been some posters of that stance here like Ghost, and I forget another posters name. That position is taking the assertive stance it is impossible to know if there is or isn't a god.

Though there are plenty of people who view the term agnostic as some soft atheist term, but those people really are likely agnostic-atheist. It's often because the connotation is sometimes people think Atheism is Strong/Gnostic atheism always that they appeal to that label. That's probably more where Madalyn O'Hair was but apart from some amusement, I've never cared for her approach in old videos I've seen. I'm much more in favor of skeptical stances, which some apologists here have felt is gutless themselves.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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20-06-2015, 06:32 AM
RE: Are Agnostics gutless Atheists?
I am in goodwithoutgod's camp.

I have no thoughts as to what agnostics think.

(19-06-2015 04:19 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  I spent quite awhile in the garden of agnostic. I wanted to be fair and consider the fact that if "anything is theoretically possible" than one can not say with any degree of authority, "there is no god."

Then when I continued thinking about it, and doing more research, it began to become clearer that we only know of the philosophical concept of a god because of the wild imaginations of ancient humans. These humans evolved their explanations from "the lightning is an indication of mother earth being mad" to more individual gods, to more personal gods, to a caring thoughtful designer personal god, and then they wrote that shit down.

So if you can trace the lies and fantasy back to their creation, inception and assimilation, then one can come to the reasoning that perhaps it is all chance and circumstance..no god needed, and since there is nothing in the real world to indicate a god, why create one in our minds out of the deep inner fear that "what if there is one..." Thus why sit on the fence with the safety position of "well it is possible..."

For me, it was a long struggle. I tend to over analyze things. I do not blame or fault anyone else's logic for staying some version of pantheist or agnostic as I sat in that crowd for a long time, and was quite comfortable there. Everyone has to come to grips with their perspective. I am finally confident and comfortable with mine. I say there is no god because there is no indication of one, no evidence of one, no reason for one, and the only way we even have the concept is some evolving philosophical bored musings of ancient humans who desired to have the answers to everything around them, and since they didn't have the answers, just made some up to fulfill their fears and insecurities about death.

I could be wrong, and I am completely ok with that. I like the confidence of my convictions. To each their own, and I judge not...well, that isn't true, I look down with great disdain at anyone who professes to believe in childish made up fairy tales, but as far as the multiple subgroups of "atheism"...to each their own.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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20-06-2015, 07:30 AM
RE: Are Agnostics gutless Atheists?
(20-06-2015 06:32 AM)Banjo Wrote:  I am in goodwithoutgod's camp.

I have no thoughts as to what agnostics think.

Does that make you agnoagnostic or apathagnostic?

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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20-06-2015, 07:54 AM
RE: Are Agnostics gutless Atheists?
(20-06-2015 07:30 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(20-06-2015 06:32 AM)Banjo Wrote:  I am in goodwithoutgod's camp.

I have no thoughts as to what agnostics think.

Does that make you agnoagnostic or apathagnostic?



Ha I have no clue what I am. I never believed. It was not an issue for me. Then I read Voltaire when I was about 16 and it made me dislike xianity. I began reading philosophy and decided to fight xianity. Simply because it offended me. Big Grin

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
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20-06-2015, 08:53 AM
RE: Are Agnostics gutless Atheists?
I voted "other".

Like theists and atheists, agnostics come in different varieties. Some are thoughtful, others thoughtless, some embrace the idea of not knowing, while others are afraid of letting go of old beliefs ... so there's no one category they fit into.

I'm an agnostic atheist myself. I have no faith in any god(s), but I don't know that, say, the deist god doesn't exist. I find it incredibly unlikely and therefore ascribe it no belief. Hence, agnostic atheist.
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20-06-2015, 09:32 AM
RE: Are Agnostics gutless Atheists?
Fucking aggies. Tongue

living word
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20-06-2015, 09:50 AM
RE: Are Agnostics gutless Atheists?
(20-06-2015 09:32 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Fucking aggies. Tongue

I'm a Longhorn, god damn it.

\m/
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20-06-2015, 10:39 AM
RE: Are Agnostics gutless Atheists?
No, just misguided. If you know the history of the word "agnostic" you know it was a horribly cobbled together word. Thomas Huxley coined it to mean "in between" or " not sure" or " fence sitter".

Here is the problem with that though. It is like trying to treat a light switch as both on and off at the same time to hedge your bets.

But since the word was created, lets look at the prefix and suffix and use the word properly instead of popularly.

"a" is the Greek prefix meaning "without"
Gnostic is the Greek word for "knowledge"

So combined, as "agnostic" that still does not tell anyone what it is the person using it claims not to know about. So if used properly it can only be a qualifying word, like going in front of theist or atheist.

You can claim that you find it likely a god exists or even claim one does, but not claim to know it's attributes thus "agnostic theist". I believe, but am not sure.

Or, you can be an agnostic atheist. You can be off or empty holding no god claims but be unsure about what future evidences might change your mind. Thus "agnostic atheist".

I myself in only a strict semantic "technical" sense call myself an agnostic atheist, but the "agnostic" part only refers to the admission that I "technically" have not lived my entire life yet. I currently though do not buy any past or present claims of any type of god or gods. But regardless of past present or future, to me it makes much more sense that humans make god claims up out of a false sense of comfort. But "technically" monkeys might fly out of my ass in the future, but I really don't waste much time worrying about it.

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