Poll: Should children always obey you, no matter what you tell them?
Yes, "Because I said so" is all that's necessary
No, I want my children to grow up to be hippies
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Are Children Slaves?
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07-12-2011, 03:17 PM
RE: Are Children Slaves?
(06-12-2011 10:35 AM)Ferdinand Wrote:  As adults, it's understandable that you want to hit you're kids when they're being disobediant, annoying, etc (But there's a line with beating, and even a child's mental and physical tolerance.) Raising them to be obediant, aware, polite, defensive, and dependent for themselves is what I would consider good parenting; on the other hand, I don't want my child to be a drone. I'd hope that they'd grow up to be creative and be their own uniquely self-defined person.

As being only a teen, I feel like my mother's done a good job with me, though she hardly had to try, because I was literally born a tiny adult (not to brag or make myself sound like I'm exceptional-- I just never acted like a baby.) My little sister on the other hand is a bundle of satanic-horror and energy-consuming rage. But in the end, it all strongly depends on the parents, and the children (as Peterkin explained, some parents are softer than others; some kids are more hard-headed that others) including their enviroment. I come across some people at school and think to myself "Sweet baby Jesus what were your parents thinking?" or the typical "Your mother should've raised you better."
I bet your little sister can't wait to join the forum!Wink
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07-12-2011, 08:55 PM
RE: Are Children Slaves?
I have a 15 yr old daughter, 14 yr old son, 10 yr old son.

I was raised with tons of unnecessary beatings. Yes I mean round robins. I turned out very good. I don't condone that type of punishment. I am 36yrs old. I have never been suspended, never skipped school, and never been arrested or any trouble with the law.

I did spank my children when they were younger. I did not use anything other than my open hand and it was ever so little. I have threatened them with other things but I have never used them. I was raised to call my parents sir-ma'am. I push that on my children but not to the point that they get mentally bashed for not doing it. My children have many more freedoms than I was ever awarded.

My wife has attempted the spanking thing and she just fails at the fear factor. They will walk all over her if I'm not around. All I have to do is look at them a certain way and they know. If they need to clean their rooms or something, mom can't get it done. I get called in and they are moving instantly (simply by hearing my boots come down the hall).

I am the dictator. Once they turn 18 they can become their own dictators. I can only prepare them for the harsh real world and hope they remember. I wish I was a kid again. I miss the freedom of not having to worry about bills and other crap. Yeah I had no rights, but I sure do miss those days a lot Smile

There has to be order in a home. If you don't step up and control the situation the teenagers will walk all over you. I will not be walked on in my home no more than anyone would let someone walk in your door and walk on you.

Those of you that know that evolution is fact. Look around you. Look at the animal kingdom. Yeah sure we have rational thought and reason. We also have a buried instinct to lead the pack or challenge the pack leader. We haven't lost the instinct in us, we just hide it very well. Children not so much.

You can't watch your children 24/7. You can do everything imaginable to try. What about when you get them in bed and you finally get to sleep. Are you sure they aren't running rampant and doing whatever? My two boys have raided the fridge long after we all have gone to sleep. All the ham and turkey bought that day for sandwiches gone in one night (2 pounds). I put the fear in them and it hasn't happened since.

Those of you that don't have children. One day you will see. Maybe you'll be lucky and get a child that is absolutely in line with everything you could imagine. I wouldn't bet on it though.

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07-12-2011, 10:28 PM
RE: Are Children Slaves?
(07-12-2011 08:55 PM)Clint Barnett Wrote:  Those of you that don't have children. One day you will see. Maybe you'll be lucky and get a child that is absolutely in line with everything you could imagine. I wouldn't bet on it though.

I hope my topic wasn't misinterpreted - it isn't about corporeal punishment, but what standards we hold our children to follow. You argue here that punishment is necessary (and so does Peterkin), and I agree.

However, this last line... "a child that is absolutely in line with everything you could imagine"... makes me think that you belong to the opinion that children shouldn't have the freedom to do as they like. Are you exactly as your parents had hoped you would be? It's great if you are, but I don't personally think you should have to live up to your parents' ideal.

I'm very lucky. I've taken care of many kids, and my daughter is absolutely the easiest child to raise. She always obeys me, and doesn't throw tantrums or say "no" when I tell her she has to do something. However, there's always reasoning behind what I tell her to do. If I tell her to do something, and she says "Why?", I'd better have a damn good reason.

If it's not obvious, "because I said so" irritates me. It implies "I have no good reason that would convince you (otherwise I would've said it), but rather because I'm bigger and stronger than you are and can force you to if I have to".

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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07-12-2011, 11:42 PM
RE: Are Children Slaves?
(07-12-2011 10:28 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  
(07-12-2011 08:55 PM)Clint Barnett Wrote:  Those of you that don't have children. One day you will see. Maybe you'll be lucky and get a child that is absolutely in line with everything you could imagine. I wouldn't bet on it though.

I hope my topic wasn't misinterpreted - it isn't about corporeal punishment, but what standards we hold our children to follow. You argue here that punishment is necessary (and so does Peterkin), and I agree.

However, this last line... "a child that is absolutely in line with everything you could imagine"... makes me think that you belong to the opinion that children shouldn't have the freedom to do as they like. Are you exactly as your parents had hoped you would be? It's great if you are, but I don't personally think you should have to live up to your parents' ideal.

I'm very lucky. I've taken care of many kids, and my daughter is absolutely the easiest child to raise. She always obeys me, and doesn't throw tantrums or say "no" when I tell her she has to do something. However, there's always reasoning behind what I tell her to do. If I tell her to do something, and she says "Why?", I'd better have a damn good reason.

If it's not obvious, "because I said so" irritates me. It implies "I have no good reason that would convince you (otherwise I would've said it), but rather because I'm bigger and stronger than you are and can force you to if I have to".

The part - "a child that is absolutely in line with everything you could imagine" - falls in suit with behavioral. I didn't clarify.

As far as freedoms go. Sure they should have some freedoms. I will use the phrase "because I said so" if I have become irritated. I give reasons I'd say about 95% of the time. I want my children to be smarter than me. To achieve more than I did. I know there is a chance they won't go any further than I have. At least they got the push for the opportunity. I believe you can restrict your child's freedom too much. This can produce negative effects but not always. My parents never had guidelines of what I was supposed to do with my life. It was more or less live by the rules.

Standards I guess aren't obviously taught on a straight line. I go with treat others equally. It is not ok to kill animals for no good reason. Every thing you do has repercussions. Treat others (including animals) as you want to be treated. Don't trample over other peoples rights. Be fair and consistent. Strive to be better at whatever you do. Strive to better your education...and so on.

I generally follow with, "When you turn 18, you will get a boot out the door!" lol Tongue (yeah they really believe that one -.-)

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08-12-2011, 08:26 AM (This post was last modified: 08-12-2011 08:29 AM by Peterkin.)
RE: Are Children Slaves?
Quote:I hope my topic wasn't misinterpreted - it isn't about corporeal punishment, but what standards we hold our children to follow. You argue here that punishment is necessary (and so does Peterkin), and I agree.

Not quite accurate. I didn't say punishment is necessary. I say control is necessary. If you're going to be responsible for a child's safety and welfare - and if you're a parent, you certainly are held responsible - you need to be in control. You can't afford to abdicate from power.

How you exercise that power and retain that control depends on the factors i listed on the first page. It needs to be applied by each parent according hir abilities, and inclinations, to each child's needs and temperament, within each society's expectations and support system.

I said you need a plan, a strategy, a method. Not my plan or method, nor my community's, because they probably wouldn't work for you.

It's not the mean god I have trouble with - it's the people who worship a mean god.
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08-12-2011, 04:51 PM
RE: Are Children Slaves?
(08-12-2011 08:26 AM)Peterkin Wrote:  How you exercise that power and retain that control depends on the factors i listed on the first page. It needs to be applied by each parent according hir abilities, and inclinations, to each child's needs and temperament, within each society's expectations and support system.

Yeah, I get it. But you're still on a different topic. You're arguing the "how" of controlling a child's behavior, while I'm arguing the "when".

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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08-12-2011, 10:01 PM
RE: Are Children Slaves?
(07-12-2011 08:55 PM)Clint Barnett Wrote:  I am the dictator.

Damn dude, I've been running with benevolent benefactor for 25 years now since my first son was born. To each his own I guess.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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09-12-2011, 07:09 AM
RE: Are Children Slaves?
(08-12-2011 10:01 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(07-12-2011 08:55 PM)Clint Barnett Wrote:  I am the dictator.

Damn dude, I've been running with benevolent benefactor for 25 years now since my first son was born. To each his own I guess.

I guess my 10 years in the army rubbed off on me Tongue

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09-12-2011, 06:38 PM (This post was last modified: 09-12-2011 06:44 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Are Children Slaves?
(09-12-2011 07:09 AM)Clint Barnett Wrote:  
(08-12-2011 10:01 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(07-12-2011 08:55 PM)Clint Barnett Wrote:  I am the dictator.

Damn dude, I've been running with benevolent benefactor for 25 years now since my first son was born. To each his own I guess.

I guess my 10 years in the army rubbed off on me Tongue

Yeah, I was in the Navy. Doesn't mean I'm gonna let that experience rub off on them. I see no compelling reason to run my house with the efficiency of a ship. They can experience it directly for themselves if they so choose.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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09-12-2011, 09:19 PM
RE: Are Children Slaves?
(09-12-2011 06:38 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(09-12-2011 07:09 AM)Clint Barnett Wrote:  
(08-12-2011 10:01 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(07-12-2011 08:55 PM)Clint Barnett Wrote:  I am the dictator.

Damn dude, I've been running with benevolent benefactor for 25 years now since my first son was born. To each his own I guess.

I guess my 10 years in the army rubbed off on me Tongue

Yeah, I was in the Navy. Doesn't mean I'm gonna let that experience rub off on them. I see no compelling reason to run my house with the efficiency of a ship. They can experience it directly for themselves if they so choose.

I was a paratrooper, I definitely don't train them to jump. Reading your comment directed at me I can only assume you are assuming I'm a hard ass. You couldn't be further from the truth. If this is what you are assuming. I'm probably more laid back than most parents. I just won't let dumb shit slide.

If you say that anything you learned in the Navy didn't influence you in any way then I'd have to say you weren't being fully truthful. Every encounter in your life has affected you in some way or another. You, in turn pass, that encounter down the line in some way.

I'm guessing(probably wrong) you took your naval experience as a negative one. Why else wouldn't you let some of your leadership and team building skills rub off. I took my career in a positive way. It pushed me to become more than I would've pushed myself to be. I use that same push for my kids. Building their confidence much higher than my father ever lowered mine.

Idiot: : a foolish or stupid person
— idiot adjective
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