Are Christians Selfish?
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10-02-2011, 08:15 PM
 
Are Christians Selfish?
Are Christians Selfish?

And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous will go into eternal life” (Matthew 25:46, NLT). Some will be punished, while others will have eternal life. I don’t believe any sin is worth eternal punishment, but what does a person need to do to become saved from this punishment? The Bible says, “ God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God. Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it” (Ephesians 2:8-9, NLT). Salvation is not a reward for being a good person, but for simply believing in God. I believe it is selfish to believe in the Christian God, and still worship Him.

First, what is the difference between heaven and hell? According to the bible, hell is a place where the damned will experience: Darkness, flames, torments, weeping, and everlasting punishment. In contrast, the saved shall have an eternal life with God. If you asked a Christians which they would rather go, they would most likely say heaven. In my personal experience, I haven’t met a Christian who would rather go to hell. However, I would rather be in hell, and could not imagine having to live in heaven.

Second, what type of people go to hell? In the Bible, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me” (John 14:6, NLT). Jesus is the only way to live with God. This means that everyone that doesn’t accept Jesus will be sent to hell for eternal punishment. Therefore, these Christians believe the majority of the world deserve to burn in hell. A person who lives a good and honest life will still be punished, while a Christian who cared only for himself will receive an eternal life. Also, babies who are not old enough to understand who Jesus is will be sent to hell if they die. Do you believe babies deserve to be punished for eternity? I know I don’t. According to the bible, innocent people will be tortured just because they didn't accept Jesus.

Third, it takes a sociopath to believe and worship the Christian God. My views might be from the fact that im an anti-sociopath, opposite of sociopath. I put the happiness of others before my own, and only care about others. I can not imagine living an eternal life in heaven knowing that good people, people who are better than me, are burning in hell. How could a person live with the idea that good people and babies will be tortured forever, because they didn't worship your God? Even if there is only one good person in hell, I would rather be tortured for eternity with him/her. Christians sometimes ask me what ill say to God when I die. The only thing I would ask for it that He does not send me to heaven, because to me that it the real hell.

In conclusion, only the selfish will believe in the Christian God, and still want to live with him in heaven. I do not believe all Christians are bad people, because I don't believe they really think about the concept of heaven and hell. I hope that a good hearted Christian would see my point, and would not want to live forever with the God that sent innocents to be tortured forever. People should question their beliefs, and this is one way for many Christians to begin questioning.

This was just something I've been thinking about lately. Of course, this would not work with all Christians. There are too many types of Christians to cover all of their beliefs. If a Christian does not believe in hell, or believe hell is only a separation from God, then clearly this is not for those people.
Thoughts/Opinions/Comments?
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10-02-2011, 09:31 PM
RE: Are Christians Selfish?
I know a good amount of Christians who believe that hell is simply any place that isn't heaven, and also some that believe that hell was effectively "closed" by Jesus, their last customer. However as you describe it, it is extremely selfish and rather more disgusting to be Christian in that belief.

This reminds me of an argument I proposed to my Christian friend, that hell controlled and ruled by Satan (as his belief states) would be more like heaven (if not better) than how the Bible describes it. If you think about the story of Lucifer, he originally wanted to be God, and then he thought he could do a better job than god, which is why he had fallen as an angel, and then became the devil. Why would this want-to-be God punish those who had followed him by commiting sins, and went against God, who he despises? It doesn't make sense for Satan to do what God wants him to do, because he doesn't like God. So the idea of a party in hell is therefore a much more logical arguement than a fiery inferno (of course either concept is completely bullshit to me).
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10-02-2011, 09:35 PM
RE: Are Christians Selfish?
I try to be pretty much live and let live when it comes to religion. As a libertarian I believe that as long as your actions do not interfere with my life or safety, my ability to do my own things that do not interfere with you in the same way I'm ok with their beliefs.

I don't think that Christians are sociopaths or are selfish. I think that religion has distorted any ability they have to think critically. If I put a gun to a religious man's head and threaten to blow his head off he should be okay with it knowing he will be in paradise. Deep inside there is the long buried sense of reason that knows it's not true, or believes it may be so they would beg for thier lives.

As atheists we would beg for our lives because we know this is all we got, and if it ends, it ends.

Why are you still reading this line when it is obviously my signature line?
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10-02-2011, 09:39 PM
RE: Are Christians Selfish?
As a Libertarian, I thoroughly go against all the things that work to undermine the foundation of our nation, the Constitution, and the art of progression. Christianity has proved that it is my enemy in those regards, so I shall be its' enemy in regards to the propoganda lies they spew.
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10-02-2011, 10:35 PM
RE: Are Christians Selfish?
Hey, FaceofBoe.

Have you met The Doctor yet Big Grin

Quote:I don't think that Christians are sociopaths or are selfish.

Thank you!

Quote: I think that religion has distorted any ability they have to think critically.

This is an idea that gets bandied around a lot, but do you really think that there are no Theists with the ability to think critically?

Hey, Tonydatiger.

I think that most of what you wrote is simply a demonisation of Christians. If someone can find me a culture, society, or organisation that doesn't have things that can be railed upon... no point in finishing that because it can't be done.

I can see where you're going with this (I might not agree, but I see where you're going), but as the saying goes, you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. I don't see this aproach as a very effective way of swaying Christians, good-hearted or no, to your point of view.

Hey, TheKetola.

Quote:As a Libertarian, I thoroughly go against all the things that work to undermine the foundation of our nation, the Constitution, and the art of progression. Christianity has proved that it is my enemy in those regards, so I shall be its' enemy in regards to the propoganda lies they spew.

That's just good old fashioned fearmongering.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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10-02-2011, 11:00 PM
RE: Are Christians Selfish?
(10-02-2011 10:35 PM)Ghost Wrote:  I can see where you're going with this (I might not agree, but I see where you're going), but as the saying goes, you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. I don't see this aproach as a very effective way of swaying Christians, good-hearted or no, to your point of view.

As much as it pains me to say it (because you made me cry over something you said on the internets, and I have not yet let it go) I do agree with this.

I don't think that anyone's opinion can be changed by sheer force of will of the one who wants to make the change. Shouting and arguing, and calling people stupid or other names is only going to make them dig in more. This is why I don't get into debates. I figure that people can think for themselves (whether they do or not is completely different) if they choose to. You can give them all sorts of information but ultimately it is up to them to make the choice. With that said, I think that willful ignorance is reprehensible.

That was sort of off-topic but I felt like saying it.

To answer the OP, I've met plenty of selfish Christians.

My reason for being is to serve as a cat cushion. That is good enough for me. Wink
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10-02-2011, 11:21 PM (This post was last modified: 10-02-2011 11:26 PM by Lilith Pride.)
RE: Are Christians Selfish?
I do feel a vast majority of Christians are selfish, though it's not just to say Christians. Selfishness is a very common way of living especially with our many societal systems. Yes the bible tells you how to be selfish, but most books on how to live your life suggest that you focus on yourself over others. Self serving thought was never ground breaking. There's a reason those of us who reject this view of being all important feel like the world is against us (it is).

There is no specific group of people that monopolizes selfishness. It's good to state to people that they should not wish upon themselves a special place for being obedient, but if they don't get something in return why would they bother to study religion? I have troubles seeing the points of people being Deists outside of the ability to state I'm a Deist, and while I believe in the divine it has little bearing on anything I do. Christians just have the most overly garnered temples out there. Most religions have them.

I was never Christian in any way, but if I ever had a moment of regret for someone who believed in their goals, and was misunderstood in the worst way, I would have to go with St. Francis. He lived his life for the sake of others giving away his wealth until his family got rid of him, and rebuilding a small ruin of a chapel when he felt god wanted him to make a church. This was a man who saw his place on earth as helping others, and allowing for a better world. Nowadays that little chapel is inside of a gigantic cathedral with expensive art stained windows gold scattered here and there and every other material statement possible. His grave even has holographic images. The man who lived a meager life because others have to, is remembered with all the garnishes that money can afford.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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11-02-2011, 01:04 AM
RE: Are Christians Selfish?
Isn't everybody selfish to a certain extent? I believe buddhists are the only organized group of people who attempt to live completely altruistic lives, and that's just traditional buddhism, I'm not familiar with the spinoffs.
(10-02-2011 08:15 PM)Tonydatiger Wrote:  Are Christians Selfish?
My views might be from the fact that im an anti-sociopath, opposite of sociopath.
...
I didn't realize there was a pro or anti sociopath platform nowadays.

Something something something Dark Side
Something something something complete
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11-02-2011, 03:19 AM
 
RE: Are Christians Selfish?
"I think that most of what you wrote is simply a demonisation of Christians."

"Of course, this would not work with all Christians. There are too many types of Christians to cover all of their beliefs. "

"I didn't realize there was a pro or anti sociopath platform nowadays."

"anti-sociopath, opposite of sociopath."

Sigh. anti as in opposite, not anti as in against.

TheKetola- I never really heard the story of Lucifer, but ill have to read about it.

"I can see where you're going with this . . . to your point of view."

I didn't really write it to sway Christians, but to make them think about their beliefs. It does come off kinda strong, but like I said i'm an anti-sociopath. I hate myself, but see good in others. So how a person can believe in this version of hell doesn't make any sense to me.

Lilith- I'll look into St. Francis too. Don't remember hearing that name before, so should be interesting.
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11-02-2011, 04:07 AM
RE: Are Christians Selfish?
@Tony I learned about the saint when I traveled in Northern Italy, so I didn't know much prior either but I was given the background before I went into the "holy sites". St. Clare who is a woman tied closely to St. Francis had a much better burial site which was simply under a church with a few old plaques. No 3D holograms and such. If I had been Catholic I probably would've been a big fan of him, the patron saint of animals. But I don't need to worry about any of that, and I'm sure that either way I'd be disgusted by the display they put forth in honour of a man devoted to poverty.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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