Are Humans Equal?
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22-03-2013, 05:10 PM
RE: Are Humans Equal?
(22-03-2013 01:37 PM)Chris7049 Wrote:  Ok. So America was created by Deists, not Christian, and it sounds like equality is only equality under the law. Or at least, from what I've read, it looks like human beings are not equal. So then why does the US (try to) give everyone equality under the law? Is that a backwards concept from an older era, or is it a good thing?
No...that's not a backwards concept but a relatively new societal concept. Until recently in Human History, society was typically divided (roughly) into castes of Royalty, Nobility, Citizen, Serf, Slave (again, just a rough estimate). By law, the people of each caste had by law different rights assigned to them just by being born to that caste. It was grossly unfair.
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22-03-2013, 05:49 PM
RE: Are Humans Equal?
(22-03-2013 01:31 PM)TrulyX Wrote:  
(22-03-2013 10:39 AM)Ghost Wrote:  So yeah. Rights, as understood from the Enlightenment straight through to today, are an illusion.

It's not an illusion; it's social contract.

(22-03-2013 11:38 AM)Chas Wrote:  Nope, I have the right to my person. It begins there and it ends where your right begins.

If you try to harm my person, you will die in the attempt - no state required. By infringing on my right, you forsake your own.

It's that simple.

It's that simple, to you, until others disagree.

Sorry, you have no rights, only "temporary privileges".

Or are you claiming unlimited rights?
Where did you read 'unlimited' in my statement? I have a right to my person. You have the right to yours.

I think I made it utterly clear what happens if someone disagrees. Dodgy

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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22-03-2013, 05:52 PM
RE: Are Humans Equal?
(22-03-2013 01:22 PM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey, Chas.

Uhhhhh, in what way are you disagreeing with what I wrote? Like, what you said is fine (seems a little too "don't tread on me" for my tastes, but hey, I'm a Canadian), I just have no idea why you began it with "nope" or why you quoted me because it is utterly unrelated to anything I wrote.
Well, I didn't read what you wrote carefully enough.

Upon re-reading, I agree with you.

And I'm Canadian, eh.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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22-03-2013, 07:40 PM
RE: Are Humans Equal?
(22-03-2013 05:01 PM)TrulyX Wrote:  
(22-03-2013 02:47 PM)Ghost Wrote:  The illusion is that rights are something we have.

Yeah, that's what I was disagreeing with.

My impression is that by saying that, Ghost more specifically meant the illusion is that rights are something inherent in existence.
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22-03-2013, 07:56 PM
RE: Are Humans Equal?
Are people equal? No.

Do I want my government to treat it's citizens as equals before the law? Yes.

Member of the Cult of Reason

The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
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22-03-2013, 08:26 PM
RE: Are Humans Equal?
(22-03-2013 07:56 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  Are people equal? No.

Do I want my government to treat it's citizens as equals before the law? Yes.

I've started typing a contribution to this thread a couple times now. Thanks for summing up my thoughts in two sentences.
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22-03-2013, 08:28 PM
RE: Are Humans Equal?
(22-03-2013 03:25 AM)Chris7049 Wrote:  I'm new here, but I've been pondering this question for a long time.

I live in the United States, and the American Declaration of Independence states that "all men are created equal".

America has really fallen in love with the idea behind this quote, thinking that everyone deserves to be taxed, everyone deserves to vote, etc.

However, if you've taken a United States History class, then you know that the US was founded by Christians. To my knowledge, their argument is that all men (and women) were created in God's image and therefore all possess a quality know as human dignity, which dictates that all humans are inherently equal. But I'm having trouble finding any reason why human beings are equal when religion is ignored.

What are your thoughts on this? Is there a moral principle that dictates that everyone is equal? Or are certain people just inherently better than others in some way?
given that the christian god handed down to men rules on who can be slaves and how they should be treated i have trouble finding any reason why human beings are equal when religion is not ignored.
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22-03-2013, 08:32 PM
RE: Are Humans Equal?
Hey, Truly.

Quote:Yeah, that's what I was disagreeing with.

OK. You've officially lost me.

Hey, Chas.

You are? Well then why haven't we done the back bacon sugaring off wear a new toque salute, ya hoser? Koo roo koo koo koo koo koo koo!

Hey, Heathen.

Why are people not equal?

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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22-03-2013, 08:51 PM
RE: Are Humans Equal?
Take a look at Islam. Men created in god's image (not women); all men are equal (some men own more women than others!)

Had the USA been the same of the rest with ONE established religion the religious bigotry and slaughter that Europe had experienced would likely have continued.

The "freedom of religion" stuff was established by the secularists (Jefferson, Madison) to protect the minority religions and to promote equality.

There would be no equality at all if not for the secular principles.

Chris, try to imagine two people who you have never met.

Tell me which one has the greater rights?

Did you need any divinely imposed morality to work out your reply or do you think that response would be innate for all humans?

Ghost, I disagree.
We have seen a previous thread about the legality / illegality of public necrophilia.
I don't think there is a US state that has expressly made this illegal so in theory, there is a right to do it.

Most legal system have a mix of restrictive and permissive rights but most are restrictive.

In business-societies it is permissive i.e. you can only do stuff (like access systems / applications) if granted permission.

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22-03-2013, 09:01 PM (This post was last modified: 24-03-2013 04:30 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Are Humans Equal?
You cannot be serious.
Vera's better than the rest of us PUT TOGETHER. I'm better than Fulton. HoC is better than me. Shit, what a dumb question. Girly's better than ... well I better not say that.
Tongue
And WAY up on top, you have the Kimmy god. She rules the universe.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist and Levitating yogi, CAAT-LY.
Yeah, for verily I say unto thee, and this we know : Jebus no likey that which doth tickle thee unto thy nether regions.

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