Are Humans Equal?
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24-03-2013, 04:49 PM
RE: Are Humans Equal?
Truly,

That was truly incomprehensible and if I'm not mistaken, kind of insulting. So I'm gonna walk away from this one. You disagree with my notion of rights as we understand them being an illusion. So be it.

Hey, fat.

I feel that you're on the same page as Truly. I just don't get it. Really, I don't. I feel like we're talking about two different things.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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24-03-2013, 06:47 PM
RE: Are Humans Equal?
(24-03-2013 03:06 PM)TrulyX Wrote:  Again, I would have assumed that is what you were getting at (unlimited rights), as I assumed Chas was getting at,

Well, you assumed wrong. Your response was illogical.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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24-03-2013, 06:49 PM
RE: Are Humans Equal?
(24-03-2013 03:19 PM)TrulyX Wrote:  
(24-03-2013 09:22 AM)Chas Wrote:  That is irrational.

I know 'that' is irrational.

'That' is why I try to avoid using pronouns, where it would be rational to be more specific.

Your response to my statement of one inherent right is completely illogical - nothing you said follows from my statement.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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24-03-2013, 08:18 PM
RE: Are Humans Equal?
(24-03-2013 04:49 PM)Ghost Wrote:  I feel that you're on the same page as Truly. I just don't get it. Really, I don't. I feel like we're talking about two different things.

Yeah, I think Truly and I are of a quite similar perspective, though I won't presume our perspectives are indeed completely the same.

You and I could be talking about two different things, but I would say both my writing and yours have each been "about" many different things, so I don't think I can easily determine just what two things you may be referring to. May I ask what specifically you don't get? That is, what is the "it" you refer to?

(24-03-2013 06:49 PM)Chas Wrote:  Your response to my statement of one inherent right is completely illogical - nothing you said follows from my statement.

I thought Truly's response followed your statement about the right to your person.

My impression is that Truly was implying we have no objective basis for claiming the inherent right to our person, so if we can arbitrarily adopt our person as a right, we can arbitrarily adopt anything as a right.
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24-03-2013, 10:49 PM
Are Humans Equal?
Besides the US and its constitution there is a whole world out there where there are more humans that have nothing to do with that document. They are not equal to us citizens right?

Therefore, humankind cannot be subjected to be what this thing says or not. Same with the bible.

If we were all equal, there wouldn't be need for compassion, empathy, generosity...

I'm not equal of a rapist for example, nor I'm equal to a banker... Different kinds of human.

We are the same species, not equal and of course we were not created.

Natural selection pics the best of each individual to evolve into a better suited being for survival. Not our case as humans now... But, it was our case, at some point.
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25-03-2013, 12:17 AM
RE: Are Humans Equal?
(24-03-2013 10:49 PM)Weeeeee_Zard Wrote:  Natural selection pics the best of each individual to evolve into a better suited being for survival. Not our case as humans now... But, it was our case, at some point.

I don't agree with this statement. "Natural selection" is "existence"/"cause and effect"/"physics"/"life"/whatever. "Best" or "better" for survival is a relative matter dependent on what exactly survival entails in a given instance, so "natural selection" isn't a singular entity which "picks" anything.
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25-03-2013, 12:45 AM
RE: Are Humans Equal?
We are born, we all look different yet we all have the same basic needs of needing touch, warmth and nourishment for survival. So in the most basic form then yes we are all equal.

The social constructs that we are born into, are all illusory.

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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25-03-2013, 07:44 AM
RE: Are Humans Equal?
Hey, fat.

I believe that humans are born with full rights and freedoms.
I believe that humans have evolved to be social animals.
I believe that humans sacrifice part of their rights and freedoms to fulfill their societal obligations.
I believe that Our culture tells us that we all have rights.
I believe that in practice, we do not.
I believe that the reason why is because the system is backwards.
I believe that the way it should work is that we begin with full rights and then some are restricted.
I believe that in practice, we begin with zero rights and are given the few that we have.
I believe that this system benefits the elite because by default, we don't have any rights.

So for me, because the way the system is set up, the consequence is that we don't actually have rights. We are given them. This is the illusion: you naturally have X, you think you have X, but you actually have Y.

You two seem to be of the position that we don't have rights. Period. Which is a position that, while I disagree with it, I can understand.

But then you go into abilities and entitlements and I just have no idea what the hell you're talking about. Then you say rights can be taken away, therefore we don't have them to begin with and that makes zero sense to me.

In short, I said something, and you two seem to be rebutting my statement by saying, "NOUH)&FH)&Yf038uf0294u29whf." So I neither know what your rebuttal is nor what your position is.

Hey, Bemore.

Quote:We are born, we all look different yet we all have the same basic needs
of needing touch, warmth and nourishment for survival. So in the most
basic form then yes we are all equal.



The social constructs that we are born into, are all illusory.

Well said.

A while back, some white people said that black people are not the same, in fact, they're not even human.

The core of empathy, a skill we develop in childhood, is the ability to recognise that you yourself are an individual, ergo, so is everyone else. You have likes and dislikes, ergo, so does everyone else. I don't like being stabbed, ergo, you must not like being stabbed. I have full value as a human being, ergo, you must have full value as a human being. It is the relationship of The Self and The Other. Psychopathy is a dysfunction in this area. The psychopath is incapable of making this connection; therefore, the Other is viewed not as an individual like the psychopath, but as a thing. Things can be treated however one desires without remourse. As Martin Buber says, it is the difference between "I and Thou" vs "I and It".

In order to, like the psychopath, treat the Other like a thing, we must short circuit our ability to empathise, in short, artificially create psychopathy within ourselves. This can be done in a number of ways, one of which is to simply deny the full value of the Other; to dehumanise them.

This was the great purpose of the idea of inequality. You are not the same as me, therefore, I can do whatever I want to you.

The idea of equality is not the idea that people are identical. No one has ever said that but people repeatedly hold it up as a strawman to defeat the idea of equality. That needs to stop right here and now. It is 100% intellectually dishonest.

The idea of equality is that everyone is an INDIVIDUAL. All individuals have equal value. Equality is the ultimate expression of empathy. You may be Bangladeshi, but you and I are equals. You may be a woman, but you and are are equals. You may be my janitor, but you and I are equals. It is the recognition of self in all humans. It is a recognition of the humanity of the Other. It is a recognition of the individuality of the Other. It is a philosophy that has been, on good days, reflected in law.

There are plenty of countries in the world that do not share this philosophy. Despite India's path to modernity, the caste system still has very deep roots in the Indian psyche. It is a system that relies entirely on the notion that humans are not born equal. The aristocratic system relies on the notion that some people are born different. The people are not the same as the royal family by virtue of blood.

When you look at humans rationally, from a genetics standpoint, from a psychosocial development standpoint, it is clear, humans are equal. Maslow's hierarchy of needs applies to everyone equally.

Anyone who says otherwise is selling something.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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25-03-2013, 09:40 AM
RE: Are Humans Equal?
(24-03-2013 06:47 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(24-03-2013 03:06 PM)TrulyX Wrote:  Again, I would have assumed that is what you were getting at (unlimited rights), as I assumed Chas was getting at,

Well, you assumed wrong. Your response was illogical.

My response wasn't illogical, simple because you are too incompetent to understand it and/or incapable of explaining your position.

Quote:Your response to my statement of one inherent right is completely illogical - nothing you said follows from my statement.

I asked you about your statement.

You failed to provide that you actually had one inherent right; that was the only thing I was questioning.

Like I said, you being incompetent and/or not able to provide an explanation for your irrational and arbitrary claim to an inherent right, doesn't make me questioning it, illogical.

However, if you want to claim that god exists and then leave, that is fine with me.

Just don't involve me in your 'right' to be a dumbass.

The Paradox Of Fools And Wise Men:
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser men so full of doubts.” ― Bertrand Russell
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25-03-2013, 09:51 AM
RE: Are Humans Equal?
I think I should add: I'm simply here to learn and share ideas.

I provided an explanation for my position, and I am just simply expecting the same in return, in order to build off of ideas and gain further understanding.

The Paradox Of Fools And Wise Men:
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser men so full of doubts.” ― Bertrand Russell
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