Are We Evolving ... Poorly?
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31-03-2012, 11:28 PM
RE: Are We Evolving ... Poorly?
(31-03-2012 11:11 PM)Superluminal Wrote:  From a natural biological standpoint, we are now actually de-evolving due to modern society. We use modern medical technology to artificially keep alive those with weaker physical traits and genetic defects that otherwise would have died before having the chance to reproduce, and then we cycle their genes back into our general population.
I tend to agree, here.

We are now such an empathetic society that now everyone has to be 'saved'.

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02-04-2012, 03:46 AM
RE: Are We Evolving ... Poorly?
(31-03-2012 11:28 PM)aurora2020 Wrote:  
(31-03-2012 11:11 PM)Superluminal Wrote:  From a natural biological standpoint, we are now actually de-evolving due to modern society. We use modern medical technology to artificially keep alive those with weaker physical traits and genetic defects that otherwise would have died before having the chance to reproduce, and then we cycle their genes back into our general population.
I tend to agree, here.

We are now such an empathetic society that now everyone has to be 'saved'.
This will be a non issue. We will be able to correct genetic diseases with gene therapy before this sort of thing becomes a big issue.

Moores law seems to apply to DNA reading/writing also. EG: http://www.gizmag.com/minion-disposable-...cer/21513/
That price will come down in 2 years just like when the first dvd burners cost $400 when the tech was the latest and greatest. GATTACA - here we come...

I think soon enough we will stop things like multiple scelrosis, etc. Fat people would will be able to get a p53 calorie restriction hack. This stuff is happening so fast.

Medicine is going to change radically over then next 10-20 years. Especially with stem cells. Maybe someday soon health and Intelligence will be considered basic human rights and be cheaply available with regenerative medicine.

“Forget Jesus, the stars died so you could be born.” - Lawrence M. Krauss
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02-04-2012, 06:54 AM
RE: Are We Evolving ... Poorly?
If our bodies evolve to be fatter, they will also evolve to deal better with being fat.

The ones who will die of fat related diseases will die out and the ones who have a better capacity to survive carrying more weight will live on.



Quote: Medicine is going to change radically over then next 10-20 years. Especially with stem cells. Maybe someday soon health and Intelligence will be considered basic human rights and be cheaply available with regenerative medicine.

I agree about health, but I think we are a lot further away from increasing intelligence. And, once we succeed in these things, population control will become increasingly important.

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Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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02-04-2012, 08:00 AM
RE: Are We Evolving ... Poorly?
(31-03-2012 07:17 PM)lucradis Wrote:  SO what are we evolving into?
A species with so much genetic variation and population that it would be pretty hard to ever be wiped out totally. Even if the earths poles flip once more and the giant crystal in the planet core reverses it's spin causing this great homopolar motor to disrupt every thing on earth... the Amish will pull through for humanity and every rumspringa will bring about new branches to the human tree.


No. I don't believe that's really going to happen. I know what you mean tho. I wear glasses and worried that if I married a girl who also wore glasses that it could lead to a revenge of the nerds thing.

I think what you pose could be an interesting discussion about epigenetics. I think that epigenetics shows how a genetic 'template' can remain pretty solid while having only bits and pieces strengthened or weakened. Being that our evolutionary structure currently rests on a wide plateau of feasibility, I've often wondered if sickle cell anemia was evidence of evolution in humans? I guess it is a natural mutation that can benefit the host but also cause damage if it's becomes too prominent. That is probably also a good example of how high tech will change the way we breed and eventually evolve in the future. People already make marriage decisions based on sickle cell.

I imagine someday that a couple will go into a "regenerative" clinic and be given a genetic evaluation with suggestions of how the science of the day can give them a modified offspring guided by the hand of bio-engineering. Scary stuff.
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02-04-2012, 08:03 AM
RE: Are We Evolving ... Poorly?
Lots of wishful thinking and expectations going on.
We can't assume our species will evolve to counter any problems we give them.
They might but they might not.

Deep has something with his genetic manipulation theory, but there would be obstacles with that as well. Such as fundies. They aren't too fond of genetic manipulation or stem cell research. They also hold a lot of sway.

Another issue with this is, if we use science to adapt our bodies to the world then our bodies have no reason to even attempt any kind of evolving. So then if it came to a point where we suddenly couldn't alter our genetics what would happen?

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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02-04-2012, 08:04 AM
RE: Are We Evolving ... Poorly?
(02-04-2012 06:54 AM)Dom Wrote:  If our bodies evolve to be fatter, they will also evolve to deal better with being fat.

The ones who will die of fat related diseases will die out and the ones who have a better capacity to survive carrying more weight will live on.

Totally agree.

(02-04-2012 06:54 AM)Dom Wrote:  ...I think we are a lot further away from increasing intelligence. And, once we succeed in these things, population control will become increasingly important.

I dunno. Intelligence is information and we live in an ever increasing information age.
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02-04-2012, 08:33 AM
RE: Are We Evolving ... Poorly?
(02-04-2012 08:04 AM)Grassy Knoll Wrote:  I dunno. Intelligence is information and we live in an ever increasing information age.


I don't want to appear pedantic (this time) but rather I want to extend that thought...
From a "best practice" perspective, I would argue that intelligence comes from information and therefore has more to do with the application of information.

The general principle is ...
Data --> Information --> Knowledge --> Wisdom.
The path to wisdom involves increasing understanding, experience with an ever more clearly defined context.
Intelligence, in the cloak and dagger sense starts with data collection but ultimately must lead to decision making which requires wisdom.
So, I am in agreement that intelligence is increasing (in both senses) but many, particularly the religious, are getting left behind.

btw, I think Oscar Wilde said something like...
Intelligence is to Intellectual as Gentleman is to Gents
(not that that has anything to do with the subject)

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02-04-2012, 10:15 AM (This post was last modified: 02-04-2012 10:37 AM by Lilith Pride.)
RE: Are We Evolving ... Poorly?
The serious issue with genetic engineering is not that there will be a controversy, it's that it will in out. Eventually a virus will adapt to the new super humans and here will finally be a new plague. I've argued in the past that genetic engineering does not promise a blue eyed blond haired generation. Different people have different views of perfection, but scientifically in regards to disease control there will be a prefferred choice. Thi type of singularity leads to widespread damage in the event that a disease cracks the code.

We've definitely lost physical fitness, immunities and many other things, unfortunately it's the same in reverse. With westernization being thrust on so many tribes there are plenty who simply die out due to the new diet, and generally all start having severe teeth problems. If there comes a time when technology stops working then the current society will be nearly wiped out with the change in environment. In the idea of Wall-E everyone would die, that story posited that before earth was destroyed a group of people escaped by spaceship.

As far as whether this current age is better or worse, there's no clear answer. I would've lived till 4 days old if not for modern medicine, but I mean little to the genetic pool since I'm incapable of passing on information. Though I have a strong cultual importance in passing on our genetic lines by the fact that I'm still capable of raising children. So my being saved does not definitely lead to a complete loss for the species =p In the end of the day with evolution there is no deciding what traits really are best, if we tried for best we'd have the same issue as the tasmanian devils.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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03-04-2012, 09:30 AM
RE: Are We Evolving ... Poorly?
You made me think of something LP. In the event of a catastrophe, the value of saving females over males would be much more important to the survival of the species. Do you think this is inherent in some latent way of how women are treated in society?
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03-04-2012, 09:37 AM
RE: Are We Evolving ... Poorly?
Of course, its always seemed the case that men try to prove their worth despite the fact that so many things are a woman's field. Biologically there is a lot more things left only to the woman so the only compensation men seem to have is social, but of course no one really discusses that cause it sounds rude.

Except feminists and people like me =p

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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