Poll: Are you pro life or pro choice
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Are athiests pro-choice?
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12-04-2013, 07:06 PM
RE: Are athiests pro-choice?
The great bulk of late term abortions are done to protect the health of the mother or because the child is not likely to live for any length of time outside the womb. The lack of viability of the fetus is also often detrimental to the health of the mother.

The few late term abortions of viable fetuses are generally preformed on young women who did not know they were pregnant or were pregnant from being raped, often by a family member. Typically these young women are in no condition to raise a child. Adoption may be a reasonable solution but how many would adopt a child that was the result of a father having sex with his own daughter.

The "pro-life" crowd likes to throw around late term abortion as an issue because it can cause some moral doubt in the minds of "pro-choice" people. Those who know the usual reasons for late term abortions know that the moral issues while difficult still land firmly on the side of abortion, even when it means actual death to a viable fetus.
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12-04-2013, 07:33 PM
RE: Are athiests pro-choice?
In Canada, late term abortions are legal. A fetus does not have the rights of a person until they are born. However, there are strict professional guidelines in place for abortions performed past 24 months. The country is basically happy with this arrangement and there has been little serious debate about it.

One recent event that might get some traction is outlined in this story, which is essentially a request for an investigation to see that current law is being complied with. "Conservative MPs ask RCMP to investigate late-term abortions as homicides" http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2013/...cides.html

"Which is more likely: that the whole natural order is suspended, or that a jewish minx should tell a lie?"- David Hume
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12-04-2013, 10:51 PM (This post was last modified: 12-04-2013 11:27 PM by Dark Light.)
RE: Are athiests pro-choice?
While I'm not strictly an atheist (but a non-religious person) I will weigh in anyhow...

nach_in fucked up. This isn't a false dichotomy, it's a false trichotomy . He/She provided the third option of undecided.

I'm none of the above. I don't like abortions. I do think that even an unborn child has some rights. I would say that anytime a mothers health is in jeopardy she should be able to terminate the pregnancy. Anytime the child will have significant health problems and/or high chance for early mortality the parents should decide. Rape victims should be able to do the same. I also know that many expectant mothers that feel the pressure, who may be able to give a healthy birth, and have the ability to support the baby will choose to kill the fetus regardless of the law. For that reason I think it should probably remain legal as much as I hate to say it. I am generally against abortion in most cases, however I am also a realist. I'd really prefer not to think about it too much, it does actually bother me a bit to think about it.

Short version

I generally oppose abortion, but reluctantly support the right to choose to reduce botched abortions.

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13-04-2013, 12:52 AM
RE: Are athiests pro-choice?
I choose undecided. I see the justice, as well as the injustice. Human life termintated vs more unfit mothers in society, leading to poverty, drug use, over population, baby deaths, more depandence on government money, the list could go on. This is why I feel indecisive. But does this justify the termination of a tiny growing human? It's not torture, and has no idea it exists. Still, there are many ways to justify it. Is it fair? No. Is it right? No. That is human nature. Life is not fair. Only a few get lucky.

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13-04-2013, 01:09 AM
RE: Are athiests pro-choice?
(12-04-2013 07:42 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(12-04-2013 01:04 AM)CaffinatedPuppy Wrote:  Did I miss something? I'm totally not getting what is going on??
You misspelled the word "atheist" in the title of this thread.

And Vosur is not only an efficient German, he is also a Grammar Nazi. Oh, I hope the irony is not lost on anyone.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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13-04-2013, 10:45 AM
RE: Are athiests pro-choice?
As others have said, atheists are not a homogenous group with the same views on abortion. Hell, not even all Christians or other religions think the same way on it.

Quote:I'd also like to state - for any anonymous viewers - that pro-choice means precisely that. "In favor of a choice". This means I'm entirely in favor of a woman or couple deciding to keep their child if they wish. Pro-choice does not solely mean "pro-abortion".
This is true. But a small minority, such as myself, are also pro-abortion. This is because I think abortion is more ethical than people having unwanted babies, who may be abused, neglected, etc., and also because the world has so many unwanted children as it is. Too many people seem pro-birth to me. People ask me why I don't have kids, like that's a crime or something. I think people who wants kids should have kids, and people who don't should not be forced to carry pregnancies to term. It's 2013, recreational sex is a thing and it's not going away, and accidents happen, birth control fails, people do stupid things. I realize that people will never stop having sex, so I think abortion as an option is a valid kind of damage control.

Another thing I fucking hate: when people say if a woman doesn't want babies, she should not have sex. Apparently, these people see babies as punishment for women (and usually not men) for having sex. This is sick. What a terrible way to view having children. Again, it's 2013. Birth control is a thing. Abortion is a thing. If anything, I'd like to see people handing out condoms in the streets. Then we'd have to worry less about abortions, because less unwanted pregnancies would happen. I'd like to see sex be talked about more openly instead of abstinence-only bullshit. I've known people with unwanted pregnancies because they guy didn't like condoms, or they didn't feel comfortable talking about BC in the heat of the moment or something. If you are having sex and don't want a baby, it's your fucking responsibility to discuss birth control. If you aren't comfortable talking about it with your partner, or you're embarrassed to go to the doctor or buy condoms, you're too immature to be having sex. I suggest watching porn and touching yourself instead.

That being said, I hate it when people act like being pro-choice means you want women to love getting abortions and to get one every month. I don't think anyone takes it lightly, nobody wants one, nobody has one for fun. It's a last resort. Still, I wish we could get rid of the stigma associated with this medical procedure. Pro-lifers often seem to want every pregnancy carried to term, but I don't see them adopting them all. Then they complain about families on welfare who can't afford to feed their kids. The world is overpopulated as it is, and when I see people saying abortion is wrong, it seems very misguided and irresponsible to me.

But ultimately, I am pro-choice because it is not my business what other people do with their bodies. As for personhood, most abortions take place when it's a clump of cells indistinguishable from other animals. So no, I don't consider that a human with rights. I care more about living people with thoughts and feelings and loved ones. I think the woman's life is a million times more valuable than some cells in her uterus. I think if people want to make other people's decisions their business, they should make it their business to adopt these children and care for kids with problems or born addicted to drugs, etc. Why does their "caring" stop when the kid is born?
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13-04-2013, 11:51 AM
RE: Are athiests pro-choice?
(13-04-2013 10:45 AM)amyb Wrote:  As others have said, atheists are not a homogenous group with the same views on abortion. Hell, not even all Christians or other religions think the same way on it.

Quote:I'd also like to state - for any anonymous viewers - that pro-choice means precisely that. "In favor of a choice". This means I'm entirely in favor of a woman or couple deciding to keep their child if they wish. Pro-choice does not solely mean "pro-abortion".
This is true. But a small minority, such as myself, are also pro-abortion. This is because I think abortion is more ethical than people having unwanted babies, who may be abused, neglected, etc., and also because the world has so many unwanted children as it is. Too many people seem pro-birth to me. People ask me why I don't have kids, like that's a crime or something. I think people who wants kids should have kids, and people who don't should not be forced to carry pregnancies to term. It's 2013, recreational sex is a thing and it's not going away, and accidents happen, birth control fails, people do stupid things. I realize that people will never stop having sex, so I think abortion as an option is a valid kind of damage control.

Another thing I fucking hate: when people say if a woman doesn't want babies, she should not have sex. Apparently, these people see babies as punishment for women (and usually not men) for having sex. This is sick. What a terrible way to view having children. Again, it's 2013. Birth control is a thing. Abortion is a thing. If anything, I'd like to see people handing out condoms in the streets. Then we'd have to worry less about abortions, because less unwanted pregnancies would happen. I'd like to see sex be talked about more openly instead of abstinence-only bullshit. I've known people with unwanted pregnancies because they guy didn't like condoms, or they didn't feel comfortable talking about BC in the heat of the moment or something. If you are having sex and don't want a baby, it's your fucking responsibility to discuss birth control. If you aren't comfortable talking about it with your partner, or you're embarrassed to go to the doctor or buy condoms, you're too immature to be having sex. I suggest watching porn and touching yourself instead.

That being said, I hate it when people act like being pro-choice means you want women to love getting abortions and to get one every month. I don't think anyone takes it lightly, nobody wants one, nobody has one for fun. It's a last resort. Still, I wish we could get rid of the stigma associated with this medical procedure. Pro-lifers often seem to want every pregnancy carried to term, but I don't see them adopting them all. Then they complain about families on welfare who can't afford to feed their kids. The world is overpopulated as it is, and when I see people saying abortion is wrong, it seems very misguided and irresponsible to me.

But ultimately, I am pro-choice because it is not my business what other people do with their bodies. As for personhood, most abortions take place when it's a clump of cells indistinguishable from other animals. So no, I don't consider that a human with rights. I care more about living people with thoughts and feelings and loved ones. I think the woman's life is a million times more valuable than some cells in her uterus. I think if people want to make other people's decisions their business, they should make it their business to adopt these children and care for kids with problems or born addicted to drugs, etc. Why does their "caring" stop when the kid is born?

Shout it, sister. Thumbsup

Excellent summation.

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13-04-2013, 12:52 PM
RE: Are athiests pro-choice?
(13-04-2013 10:45 AM)amyb Wrote:  As others have said, atheists are not a homogenous group with the same views on abortion. Hell, not even all Christians or other religions think the same way on it.

Quote:I'd also like to state - for any anonymous viewers - that pro-choice means precisely that. "In favor of a choice". This means I'm entirely in favor of a woman or couple deciding to keep their child if they wish. Pro-choice does not solely mean "pro-abortion".
This is true. But a small minority, such as myself, are also pro-abortion. This is because I think abortion is more ethical than people having unwanted babies, who may be abused, neglected, etc., and also because the world has so many unwanted children as it is. Too many people seem pro-birth to me. People ask me why I don't have kids, like that's a crime or something. I think people who wants kids should have kids, and people who don't should not be forced to carry pregnancies to term. It's 2013, recreational sex is a thing and it's not going away, and accidents happen, birth control fails, people do stupid things. I realize that people will never stop having sex, so I think abortion as an option is a valid kind of damage control.

Another thing I fucking hate: when people say if a woman doesn't want babies, she should not have sex. Apparently, these people see babies as punishment for women (and usually not men) for having sex. This is sick. What a terrible way to view having children. Again, it's 2013. Birth control is a thing. Abortion is a thing. If anything, I'd like to see people handing out condoms in the streets. Then we'd have to worry less about abortions, because less unwanted pregnancies would happen. I'd like to see sex be talked about more openly instead of abstinence-only bullshit. I've known people with unwanted pregnancies because they guy didn't like condoms, or they didn't feel comfortable talking about BC in the heat of the moment or something. If you are having sex and don't want a baby, it's your fucking responsibility to discuss birth control. If you aren't comfortable talking about it with your partner, or you're embarrassed to go to the doctor or buy condoms, you're too immature to be having sex. I suggest watching porn and touching yourself instead.

That being said, I hate it when people act like being pro-choice means you want women to love getting abortions and to get one every month. I don't think anyone takes it lightly, nobody wants one, nobody has one for fun. It's a last resort. Still, I wish we could get rid of the stigma associated with this medical procedure. Pro-lifers often seem to want every pregnancy carried to term, but I don't see them adopting them all. Then they complain about families on welfare who can't afford to feed their kids. The world is overpopulated as it is, and when I see people saying abortion is wrong, it seems very misguided and irresponsible to me.

But ultimately, I am pro-choice because it is not my business what other people do with their bodies. As for personhood, most abortions take place when it's a clump of cells indistinguishable from other animals. So no, I don't consider that a human with rights. I care more about living people with thoughts and feelings and loved ones. I think the woman's life is a million times more valuable than some cells in her uterus. I think if people want to make other people's decisions their business, they should make it their business to adopt these children and care for kids with problems or born addicted to drugs, etc. Why does their "caring" stop when the kid is born?

Very well said!!


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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13-04-2013, 03:35 PM
RE: Are athiests pro-choice?
(12-04-2013 12:24 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I'm neither. I strongly believe in women's reproductive rights. Period. "Pro-life" is really anti choice.

To me there is nothing to discuss.

Yeah, what she said. Where's the poll option of "I don't have a uterus so it ain't my fucking call and I should just keep my motherfucking mouth shut." Old men incapable of bringing a baby to term should just keep their fucking pieholes shut, lest Girly calls them on their own idiocy shit.

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13-04-2013, 04:29 PM
RE: Are athiests pro-choice?
I have always been pro choice. Even when I was a Christian I was.

Since I'm been here I've been told many different things. First of course that there is no stereotype for an atheist. We are all different with our own beliefs. Then I talk about being a Republican, well I get told that's not normal for an atheist. I post my opinion on different issues and pretty much get told the same thing. Then I scratch my head and say wtf, I thought their was no normal atheist then I get told I'm not normal for an atheist. I don't get it. Of course I've also been called stupid because I have a different opinion that most on this forum.

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