Are beliefs in abstract concepts necessary for society?
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04-10-2013, 05:18 PM
Are beliefs in abstract concepts necessary for society?
Science, religion, entertainment, hope, love, patriotism, a sense of history and many more are abstract concepts that have nothing or very little to do with the necessary every day living. When the cotton gin was invented, it wasn't invented for any abstract reasons like science, love, patriotism etc. The every day living of humans isn't directly related to any abstract notion so why do we humans seem to always prescribe to them?
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04-10-2013, 09:53 PM (This post was last modified: 04-10-2013 10:02 PM by Chippy.)
RE: Are beliefs in abstract concepts necessary for society?
(04-10-2013 05:18 PM)I and I Wrote:  Science, religion, entertainment, hope, love, patriotism, a sense of history and many more are abstract concepts that have nothing or very little to do with the necessary every day living. When the cotton gin was invented, it wasn't invented for any abstract reasons like science, love, patriotism etc. The every day living of humans isn't directly related to any abstract notion so why do we humans seem to always prescribe to them?

"The every day living of humans" is replete with abstract concepts. The set of natural numbers {1,2,3,...,n} is an abstract concept. Two as opposed to "two coconuts" is an abstraction. The cotton gin was motivated by a desire to improve productivity; productivity is an abstract concept. The cotton gin is--generally speaking--a type of sorting machine; sorting is an abstract concept.

Abstraction and conceptualisation are necessary to natural language, I don't think we could have language (as we know it) without them.

Saussure's Course in General Linguistics and Levi-Strauss' The Raw and the Cooked are seminal works on this topic.
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04-10-2013, 11:14 PM
RE: Are beliefs in abstract concepts necessary for society?
(04-10-2013 05:18 PM)I and I Wrote:  Science, religion, entertainment, hope, love, patriotism, a sense of history and many more are abstract concepts that have nothing or very little to do with the necessary every day living. When the cotton gin was invented, it wasn't invented for any abstract reasons like science, love, patriotism etc. The every day living of humans isn't directly related to any abstract notion so why do we humans seem to always prescribe to them?

bc daily life is directly related to being right or getting yourself right to live

bc all and anything is about rights so right conception is the only way, so concepts are created to pretend having all justifications needed to b living
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06-10-2013, 07:00 AM
RE: Are beliefs in abstract concepts necessary for society?
(04-10-2013 09:53 PM)Chippy Wrote:  
(04-10-2013 05:18 PM)I and I Wrote:  Science, religion, entertainment, hope, love, patriotism, a sense of history and many more are abstract concepts that have nothing or very little to do with the necessary every day living. When the cotton gin was invented, it wasn't invented for any abstract reasons like science, love, patriotism etc. The every day living of humans isn't directly related to any abstract notion so why do we humans seem to always prescribe to them?

"The every day living of humans" is replete with abstract concepts. The set of natural numbers {1,2,3,...,n} is an abstract concept. Two as opposed to "two coconuts" is an abstraction. The cotton gin was motivated by a desire to improve productivity; productivity is an abstract concept. The cotton gin is--generally speaking--a type of sorting machine; sorting is an abstract concept.

Abstraction and conceptualisation are necessary to natural language, I don't think we could have language (as we know it) without them.

Saussure's Course in General Linguistics and Levi-Strauss' The Raw and the Cooked are seminal works on this topic.

So if these abstractions and conceptualizations are necessary then what is to be said about people who takes these conceptions and abstractions literally and people who deny certain abstractions and conceptualizations. Aren't they both going about it the wrong way?
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06-10-2013, 08:43 AM
Re: Are beliefs in abstract concepts necessary for society?
Define your concept of society.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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06-10-2013, 08:47 AM
RE: Are beliefs in abstract concepts necessary for society?
(06-10-2013 08:43 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Define your concept of society.

are you not familiar with the term?
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/society
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06-10-2013, 09:05 AM (This post was last modified: 06-10-2013 09:17 AM by kim.)
RE: Are beliefs in abstract concepts necessary for society?
(06-10-2013 07:00 AM)I and I Wrote:  
(04-10-2013 09:53 PM)Chippy Wrote:  "The every day living of humans" is replete with abstract concepts. The set of natural numbers {1,2,3,...,n} is an abstract concept. Two as opposed to "two coconuts" is an abstraction. The cotton gin was motivated by a desire to improve productivity; productivity is an abstract concept. The cotton gin is--generally speaking--a type of sorting machine; sorting is an abstract concept.

Abstraction and conceptualisation are necessary to natural language, I don't think we could have language (as we know it) without them.

Saussure's Course in General Linguistics and Levi-Strauss' The Raw and the Cooked are seminal works on this topic.

So if these abstractions and conceptualizations are necessary then what is to be said about people who takes these conceptions and abstractions literally and people who deny certain abstractions and conceptualizations.
People are human and humans think. Conceptualizing is a thought process - a forming of ideas. Abstractions exist in thoughts. There are well-known cognitive pathways in the brain that have evolved for social reasons.

(06-10-2013 07:00 AM)I and I Wrote:  Aren't they both going about it the wrong way?
What it do you refer to? Again, people are human and humans think.

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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06-10-2013, 09:09 AM
Re: RE: Are beliefs in abstract concepts necessary for society?
(06-10-2013 08:47 AM)I and I Wrote:  
(06-10-2013 08:43 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Define your concept of society.

are you not familiar with the term?
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/society

You gonna be that way still? And wonder why people argue with you for pages upon pages over a term.

How do you interpret it... Society ranges from the forms a complex communities to merely a group of people together.

The former meaning, makes them necessary, the latter does not.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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06-10-2013, 11:51 AM
RE: Are beliefs in abstract concepts necessary for society?
(04-10-2013 05:18 PM)I and I Wrote:  Science....(is an) abstract concept that has nothing or very little to do with the necessary every day living.
If that doesn't qualify for a....

[Image: epic-jackie-chan-template.png]

I don't know what does.

[Image: 21omssh.jpg]
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06-10-2013, 06:27 PM
RE: Are beliefs in abstract concepts necessary for society?
(06-10-2013 09:05 AM)kim Wrote:  
(06-10-2013 07:00 AM)I and I Wrote:  So if these abstractions and conceptualizations are necessary then what is to be said about people who takes these conceptions and abstractions literally and people who deny certain abstractions and conceptualizations.
People are human and humans think. Conceptualizing is a thought process - a forming of ideas. Abstractions exist in thoughts. There are well-known cognitive pathways in the brain that have evolved for social reasons.

(06-10-2013 07:00 AM)I and I Wrote:  Aren't they both going about it the wrong way?
What it do you refer to? Again, people are human and humans think.

Do you think that one day humans will evolve to not need to conceptualize things or need to believe in abstract concepts? Dancing, entertainment and patriotism are examples of abstract meanings, yet people seem to desire those things and enjoy them.

"It" as in life. If abstractions and concepts are necessary then would be wrong to say that the abstractions mean nothing (atheism) and it would be wrong to take those abstractions literally (religion).
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